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No, this is ridiculous!

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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2005 at 9:56pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by tippy_182 tippy_182 wrote:


http://www.icr.org/

Thanks - very interesting.  Will review.

This might take me a while - not only is the site very dense, but the research page keeps crashing my computer (I don't know if that's a sign or what).  But I'll keep at it. 

:)

Ok.  Reinstalled Acrobat, and had a chance to review the site in some detail.  I read most, but not all, of the articles in the research section.  The rest of the site was less interesting to me, as it was mostly political in nature. 

I then did some counter-research on select topics to check validity as best I could.  Much of this ended up being forced towards biased websites such as www.talkorigins.org.  A very informative site, but obviously biased and should be evaluated carefully.

My conclusions:

1.  An impressive collection of work

2.  The people behind it are actual scientists, with actual educations from actual schools.  Not high-school dropouts with the home-made diploma.

3.  The studies I read all appeared to apply proper scientific method to questions, and had me thinking hard about some of their claims.  Unfortunately, most of the studies were beyond my understanding of the relevant fields (I really should read up on geology), so I was mostly unable to personally evaluate the substance of these studies.

4.  One GLARING methodological problem, however, with the studies that I read, was that none of those studies references other contemporary studies on point.  This is a must in serious research, and significantly reduces the value of any findings.  Example:  The article about C14 dating and problems therein from C14 in coal (here) appears to point out a valid flaw in the accuracy of C14 dating.  The article did not, however, mention or discuss the significant amount of current research into this exact subject, including some that potentially directly contradict the claims in the ICR study.  This is an almost unforgivable sin in research methodology and draws into serious doubt the scientific sincerity of the researcher.

5.  My online research as to the credibility of ICR did not go well for ICR.  Again, the most convenient source of debunking is www.talkorigins.org, although that site should be read carefully.  A general web search will reveal other sites also pointing out rather bad scientific failures in ICR's methodology.

6.  To make sure, however, I searched the ICR site for something I DO understand:  "thermodynamics", fishing for a 2d Law reference.  I struck gold here.  While not a study, this article repeats every misconception and mischaracterization of thermodynamics I have heard and then some.  This article is a crock of the worst sort, and taints the entire ICR organization by its very existence on their site, as it displays blatant disregard for the most fundamental scientific principles.

Based on available evidence, therefore, I conclude that ICR, while showing all the trappings of a serious scientific effort, is not.

 

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metalpunx View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote metalpunx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2005 at 11:29pm
i could same the same thing about any scientific evidence . Ifact many scientist do this to people they disagrea with.
I'm sorry your opinion is WRONG! Every one who is not me is wrong!
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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 February 2005 at 11:39pm
huh?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote metalpunx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2005 at 12:45am
what?
I'm sorry your opinion is WRONG! Every one who is not me is wrong!
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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2005 at 12:48am
I didn't understand your post.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote metalpunx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2005 at 1:22am
huh?
I'm sorry your opinion is WRONG! Every one who is not me is wrong!
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Hades View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2005 at 1:55am
Well since I didnt want to start another thread. I will post this semi-relivant article in here.

Study shows American teenagers indifferent to freedoms
The Associated Press
Updated: 10:20 a.m. ET Jan. 31, 2005

WASHINGTON - The way many high school students see it, government censorship of newspapers may not be a bad thing, and flag burning is hardly protected free speech.

It turns out the First Amendment is a second-rate issue to many of those nearing their own adult independence, according to a study of high school attitudes released Monday.

The original amendment to the Constitution is the cornerstone of the way of life in the United States, promising citizens the freedoms of religion, speech, press and assembly.

Yet, when told of the exact text of the First Amendment, more than one in three high school students said it goes “too far” in the rights it guarantees. Only half of the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories.

“These results are not only disturbing; they are dangerous,” said Hodding Carter III, president of the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, which sponsored the $1 million study. “Ignorance about the basics of this free society is a danger to our nation’s future.”

The students are even more restrictive in their views than their elders, the study says.

When asked whether people should be allowed to express unpopular views, 97 percent of teachers and 99 percent of school principals said yes. Only 83 percent of students did.

Indifference, misunderstanding
The results reflected indifference, with almost three in four students saying they took the First Amendment for granted or didn’t know how they felt about it. It was also clear that many students do not understand what is protected by the bedrock of the Bill of Rights.

Three in four students said flag burning is illegal. It’s not. About half the students said the government can restrict any indecent material on the Internet. It can’t.

“Schools don’t do enough to teach the First Amendment. Students often don’t know the rights it protects,” Linda Puntney, executive director of the Journalism Education Association, said in the report. “This all comes at a time when there is decreasing passion for much of anything. And, you have to be passionate about the First Amendment.”

The partners in the project, including organizations of newspaper editors and radio and television news directors, share a clear advocacy for First Amendment issues.

Federal and state officials, meanwhile, have bemoaned a lack of knowledge of U.S. civics and history among young people. Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., has even pushed through a mandate that schools must teach about the Constitution on Sept. 17, the date it was signed in 1787.

The survey, conducted by researchers at the University of Connecticut, is billed as the largest of its kind. More than 100,000 students, nearly 8,000 teachers and more than 500 administrators at 544 public and private high schools took part in early 2004.

Lack of education
The study suggests that students embrace First Amendment freedoms if they are taught about them and given a chance to practice them, but schools don’t make the matter a priority.

Students who take part in school media activities, such as a student newspapers or TV production, are much more likely to support expression of unpopular views, for example.

About nine in 10 principals said it is important for all students to learn some journalism skills, but most administrators say a lack of money limits their media offerings.

More than one in five schools offer no student media opportunities; of the high schools that do not offer student newspapers, 40 percent have eliminated them in the last five years.

“The last 15 years have not been a golden era for student media,” said Warren Watson, director of the J-Ideas project at Ball State University in Indiana. “Programs are under siege or dying from neglect. Many students do not get the opportunity to practice our basic freedoms.”

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pballa j.r. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pballa j.r. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2005 at 7:46am

I read the last page to simply see Clark pwn this thread...

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Clark Kent View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2005 at 8:58am

Hades - I saw that yesterday.  Freaked me out.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bunkered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2005 at 9:11am
Yeah, I read that yesterday as well.

I honestly can't believe how stupid people around me are. I thought just about EVERYONE knew what the First Amendment was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote metalpunx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2005 at 1:35pm
Kids dont care any mroe because there sick of haveing other peoples opionions shoved down there throats. Whats the point in careing some one is going to tell them there wrong any way.Or some one will pretend there to dumb to understand what your saying.And there is no point in talking to people like that.
I'm sorry your opinion is WRONG! Every one who is not me is wrong!
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