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Iraq new terrorist breeding ground

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DBibeau855 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2005 at 4:20pm
No, but i bet saddam wouldnt have complained if he could.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrunkDriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2005 at 4:21pm
Don't pay any attenchen to it. Untill the nukes start droping no information about that war is going to accurate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBibeau855 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2005 at 4:30pm
As horrible as it sounds. Im waiting for bush to get everyone out of the terrorist places then saying SURPRISE and bombing the stuffing out of them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barretm82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2005 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by Barretm82 Barretm82 wrote:

Originally posted by goodsmitty goodsmitty wrote:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1802& ;ncid=716&e=16&u=/washpost/20050114/ts_washpost/a746 0_2005jan13


Another vicious blow to the "we were right to invade Iraq mindset"....


Some of the highlights:


President Bush (news - web sites) has frequently described the Iraq war as an integral part of U.S. efforts to combat terrorism. But the council's report suggests the conflict has also helped terrorists by creating a haven for them in the chaos of war.


Before the U.S. invasion, the CIA said Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) had only circumstantial ties with several al Qaeda members. Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) rejected the idea of forming an alliance with Hussein and viewed him as an enemy of the jihadist movement because the Iraqi leader rejected radical Islamic ideals and ran a secular government.


 



And your thoughts on Afganistan?


Well Smithy, since I see your online. bump.
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goodsmitty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goodsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2005 at 4:51pm

Originally posted by oldsoldier oldsoldier wrote:



And my question still looms, why was our intervention in the unjust war history called World War 2 never questioned. We destroyed two great civilizations and cultures and installed our values on these peacefull people ...........

WRONGO! How did Hitler get to power? AN ELECTION! It was already a democracy, and there were about 15 political parties running for control of Germany at the time. Fundamental difference here-Iraqis and all of those Arab countries do not grasp democracy, hence they are not going to fight for it.

The Japanese were robots to the empire, so when the emporer said to give up, THEY DID! You are comparing apples and potatoes.

The move to pull out of Iraq is building steam daily with even Republican lawmakers getting on board, because they are starting to figure out that what we are trying to do will never work. Bush is waiting for the day when Iraqis will pick up weapons and fight for themselves, or the boobs in the Iraqi Security forces (who are being slaughtered by all accounts) will be able to effectively fight the terrorists. It isn't going to happen.

"Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status."
-Zesty

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goodsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2005 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by Barretm82 Barretm82 wrote:

Originally posted by Barretm82 Barretm82 wrote:

Originally posted by goodsmitty goodsmitty wrote:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1802& ; ;ncid=716&e=16&u=/washpost/20050114/ts_washpost/a746 0_2005jan13


Another vicious blow to the "we were right to invade Iraq mindset"....


Some of the highlights:


President Bush (news - web sites) has frequently described the Iraq war as an integral part of U.S. efforts to combat terrorism. But the council's report suggests the conflict has also helped terrorists by creating a haven for them in the chaos of war.


Before the U.S. invasion, the CIA said Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) had only circumstantial ties with several al Qaeda members. Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) rejected the idea of forming an alliance with Hussein and viewed him as an enemy of the jihadist movement because the Iraqi leader rejected radical Islamic ideals and ran a secular government.


 



And your thoughts on Afganistan?


Well Smithy, since I see your online. bump.

Afghanistan was the right place to attack, and we should have done it right. Instead we held back sending troops where our enemy WAS to send them to where our enemy WASN'T. We sent only about 10,000 troops to Afgan'n and saved 135,000 for Iraq. We let Ossama loose when we could have caught him, and instead entrusted his capture to the northern alliance. This has always been madness to me.

We should have done the job right in Afghanistan, just like we did in WWII. In WWII we didn't stop after taking Normandy and invade Mexico! We stayed focused on the enemy. Bush had too much baggage from his father concerning Iraq, and it clouded his judgement.

"Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status."
-Zesty

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Barretm82 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barretm82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2005 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by goodsmitty goodsmitty wrote:

Fundamental difference here-Iraqis and all of those Arab countries do not grasp democracy, hence they are not going to fight for it.




Are you saying that applies to Afghanistan too?
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Barretm82 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barretm82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2005 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by goodsmitty goodsmitty wrote:

Instead we held back sending troops where our enemy WAS to send them to where our enemy WASN'T.



Again, have to agree to disagree. Saddam certainly was your (U.S) enemy. I fail to see how you can overlook this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2005 at 6:11pm

Smitty - I think the question on Afghanistan is whether it is not also now a big training camp for terrorists.  Perhaps not on quite the scale as Iraq (perhaps in part because Iraq is drawing people away), but a training ground nevertheless?

Presuming a yes answer for the moment, does that mean that we should not have gone into Afghanistan for fear of creating more terrorists? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fractus.scud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2005 at 6:20pm
There is no "move" to leave Iraq. Only between stupid left winged liberals who are still mad Kerry lost. Notice the new only gives bad news? That's because thats what people want to hear, they are more interested in hearing "10 US SOLDIERS KILLED BY MORTAR" Than "Iraqi water supply fixed" That's why more than 50% of news on TV is greatly exaggerated to the worse end of the spectrum.

Benny go home!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bango Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2005 at 7:07pm
Originally posted by goodsmitty goodsmitty wrote:

Originally posted by Barretm82 Barretm82 wrote:

Originally posted by Barretm82 Barretm82 wrote:

Originally posted by goodsmitty goodsmitty wrote:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1802& ; ; ;ncid=716&e=16&u=/washpost/20050114/ts_washpost/a746 0_2005jan13


Another vicious blow to the "we were right to invade Iraq mindset"....


Some of the highlights:


President Bush (news - web sites) has frequently described the Iraq war as an integral part of U.S. efforts to combat terrorism. But the council's report suggests the conflict has also helped terrorists by creating a haven for them in the chaos of war.


Before the U.S. invasion, the CIA said Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) had only circumstantial ties with several al Qaeda members. Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) rejected the idea of forming an alliance with Hussein and viewed him as an enemy of the jihadist movement because the Iraqi leader rejected radical Islamic ideals and ran a secular government.


 



And your thoughts on Afganistan?


Well Smithy, since I see your online. bump.

Afghanistan was the right place to attack, and we should have done it right. Instead we held back sending troops where our enemy WAS to send them to where our enemy WASN'T. We sent only about 10,000 troops to Afgan'n and saved 135,000 for Iraq. We let Ossama loose when we could have caught him, and instead entrusted his capture to the northern alliance. This has always been madness to me.

We should have done the job right in Afghanistan, just like we did in WWII. In WWII we didn't stop after taking Normandy and invade Mexico! We stayed focused on the enemy. Bush had too much baggage from his father concerning Iraq, and it clouded his judgement.

Get your facts straight. We didn't leave it up to the Northern Alliance.

Our Special Operations Forces went in to the Tora Bora Mountains and were aided by the the Northern Alliance. They did that because the Northern Alliance knew the mountainous terrain better then they seeing as they had been fighting the Taliban in those mountains for years. It wasn't left up to the N. Alliance, we were helped by them.

I want to here more about your views of the Afghanistan War.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bango Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2005 at 10:18pm

Bump

I want a reply.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2005 at 12:35am

Originally posted by fractus.scud fractus.scud wrote:

There is no "move" to leave Iraq. Only between stupid left winged liberals who are still mad Kerry lost. Notice the new only gives bad news? That's because thats what people want to hear, they are more interested in hearing "10 US SOLDIERS KILLED BY MORTAR" Than "Iraqi water supply fixed" That's why more than 50% of news on TV is greatly exaggerated to the worse end of the spectrum.

Well, I guess you're like the rest of the conservatives who act like everyone believes in the war. Bad news about soldiers dying should be the most reported, there is no reason to be there; therefore, soldiers dying is useless.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goodsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2005 at 2:41am
Originally posted by Bango Bango wrote:

Originally posted by goodsmitty goodsmitty wrote:

Originally posted by Barretm82 Barretm82 wrote:

Originally posted by Barretm82 Barretm82 wrote:

Originally posted by goodsmitty goodsmitty wrote:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1802& ; ; ; ;ncid=716&e=16&u=/washpost/20050114/ts_washpost/a746 0_2005jan13


Another vicious blow to the "we were right to invade Iraq mindset"....


Some of the highlights:


President Bush (news - web sites) has frequently described the Iraq war as an integral part of U.S. efforts to combat terrorism. But the council's report suggests the conflict has also helped terrorists by creating a haven for them in the chaos of war.


Before the U.S. invasion, the CIA said Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) had only circumstantial ties with several al Qaeda members. Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) rejected the idea of forming an alliance with Hussein and viewed him as an enemy of the jihadist movement because the Iraqi leader rejected radical Islamic ideals and ran a secular government.


 



And your thoughts on Afganistan?


Well Smithy, since I see your online. bump.

Afghanistan was the right place to attack, and we should have done it right. Instead we held back sending troops where our enemy WAS to send them to where our enemy WASN'T. We sent only about 10,000 troops to Afgan'n and saved 135,000 for Iraq. We let Ossama loose when we could have caught him, and instead entrusted his capture to the northern alliance. This has always been madness to me.

We should have done the job right in Afghanistan, just like we did in WWII. In WWII we didn't stop after taking Normandy and invade Mexico! We stayed focused on the enemy. Bush had too much baggage from his father concerning Iraq, and it clouded his judgement.

Get your facts straight. We didn't leave it up to the Northern Alliance.

Our Special Operations Forces went in to the Tora Bora Mountains and were aided by the the Northern Alliance. They did that because the Northern Alliance knew the mountainous terrain better then they seeing as they had been fighting the Taliban in those mountains for years. It wasn't left up to the N. Alliance, we were helped by them.

I want to here more about your views of the Afghanistan War.

Okay I'll use your facts: A handful of SF troopers with linguists leading 15,000 Northern Alliance Soldiers do not equal 135,000 professional American soldiers in the task of guarding the routes out of Afgan'n into Pakistan. We left the task to 15,000 yo-yos so that we conserve our forces for Iraq. Now we don't have bin-Laden, and are in a war that has nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.

P.S. I am at work all this weekend so its hard for me to respond quickly. Bump

"Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status."
-Zesty

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Banshee11B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2005 at 10:26am
I have a question... Why is it bad that there are terrorists flocking to Iraq to fight us? We have a large group of Combat arms troops in a foreign country with people who want to see us dead traveling incredible distances so they can fight the big bad americans. Sweet. Welcome to the meat grinder boys! Do I think that the war is justified? yes and no. I'm really sorry that the intelligence that we had was wrong. I don't think we need to go into harms way because of an implied threat. But Saddam paraded that threat for the world to see. He specifically implied the use of WMD's would occur because he worked hard to make the world believe it would be to costly to mess with him. Well in the international game of political poker his bluff was called and had a straight flush rammed up his robe.

Anyway, we're in it now. This isn't a fight we need to win, this is a fight we HAVE to win. But democracy isn't easy. It took us 11 years to ratify the constitution of the United States with threats of marching the army to Washington to prevent the Federalists from setting up a noble-lead government. And that was the US, without century old hates and a tribal-like sense of political will. I think the biggest issue is why are we being reactive instead of proactive. We're using equipment for uses that they were not intended for. A Humvee was not meant to be an Infantry support vehicle. It's a Jeep replacement. What we need is getting the right tools for the right job (and the striker is not it IMHO). Having Armor officers in charge of an urban/guerrilla fight is about as bad of an idea as having Artillery officers in charge of the forces in Vietnam. The problem is we don't learn from our mistakes. Sure Iraq wasn't responsible for 9/11 but how long are we going to wait for someone else? At least right now they are coming to us, and it's not in our country. Or, should we back off and wait to react? I know North Korea would love that...

Edited by Banshee11B
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...with the possible exception of handguns and tequila.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E-98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2005 at 10:57am

^^you got an excellent point there...
Attacking marines with M16s and the like is much harder than attacking civilians...  They're acting like a lightning rod out there.

By the way goodsmitty...
What happens when we kill Bin Laden?
Taliban just disbands? No.  Bin Laden becomes a martyr, and a new leader arises--possibley one that is worse for us.
Killing Bin Laden is not going to solve all of our problems.

By the way...  I love it how some 12 year old kid on an internet forum critiscizes the decisions of some ranking military officer/the president.  To tell you the truth, you have no idea about how to command an army on a large scale, neither do I.  So what right do you or I have to critiscize?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goodsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2005 at 11:10am
Originally posted by E-98 E-98 wrote:

^^you got an excellent point there...
Attacking marines with M16s and the like is much harder than attacking civilians...  They're acting like a lightning rod out there.

By the way goodsmitty...
What happens when we kill Bin Laden?
Taliban just disbands? No.  Bin Laden becomes a martyr, and a new leader arises--possibley one that is worse for us.
Killing Bin Laden is not going to solve all of our problems.

By the way...  I love it how some 12 year old kid on an internet forum critiscizes the decisions of some ranking military officer/the president.  To tell you the truth, you have no idea about how to command an army on a large scale, neither do I.  So what right do you or I have to critiscize?

Actually, I was an army captain, and walking combat patrols in the former Yugoslavia when the 12 year old kid you are speaking of was two years old. That doesn't make me an expert, but I do know something about army structure and force strength. I can see the obvious when it is in front of my face, and interpret the signs of the times. It isn't rocket science. We have bitten off more than we can chew without a draft, and these forumers are the ones who are going to pay the price for Texas testosterone.

"Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status."
-Zesty

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goodsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2005 at 11:18am

Originally posted by fractus.scud fractus.scud wrote:

There is no "move" to leave Iraq. Only between stupid left winged liberals who are still mad Kerry lost. Notice the new only gives bad news? That's because thats what people want to hear, they are more interested in hearing "10 US SOLDIERS KILLED BY MORTAR" Than "Iraqi water supply fixed" That's why more than 50% of news on TV is greatly exaggerated to the worse end of the spectrum.

Good news, like:

60% unemployment in Iraq after two years. Concrete being imported from other countries for $1000 per slab under Halliburton contracts, when they could be made in Iraq for $100 and employ somebody.

Most of Iraq still without the basic infrastructure such as water and electricity.

 

"Reading this thread, I'm sad to say that the only difference between the average American and the average Taliban is economic status."
-Zesty

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2005 at 5:40pm
My question is how and under who did you end up wandering the ex Yugoslavian landscape, and was it portrayed in the media here at home as it actually was over there, I suspect not. A bit of Arkansas legacy building I do believe.

And how can we make such statements with all respect, Captian, based on media representation of events in a war zone, when we both know that nothing we see or hear from the media can be totally representitive of the situation. It appears many of your Bush, Halliburtun comments are media representations of issues that we both must see as suspect based on our expierience with media in war zones.

My boy was an Infantry Captian (Company Commander)with the 101st, was in the zone, and many of his letters, and photos and accounts, do not "jive" with what our media "experts" sell us each night on the nightly news.

Only history will sort this out years after all the information and potential revalations are finally in the open.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WGP guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2005 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by B_Wet A-5 B_Wet A-5 wrote:

didint fell like reading the article but nice sig.
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