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Is paintball beginning to die?

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Poll Question: Is paintball dying?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote merc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2004 at 11:27pm
i still love you hway...

i remember the day when going out with a rental or a stingray made you part of a group

but now i find my self an outsider because i dont spend my money to get a flashy jersey and matching pants, marker, hoppper, pack, and pods.

dont get me wrong i have nice gear i just dont like flash. it just seams that "the marker makes the player" attitude has gotten much bigger and is hurting paintball...i think people play less oftin today as they did in the 90s...mabe more players but the same players dont play as much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lightningbolt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2004 at 11:32pm

It's what you make of it.  I'm leaning twords speedball and still like big games.  I really don't care to worry to much about the big end of the subject.

As long as I can sling at reasonable prices at a good field it's all good.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rave5910 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2004 at 11:37pm
None of this corporate company-take-over crap is really going to effect the rec-ballers, none of the people I play with give a crap about who sits at the head of the table in the building that their markers brand name is on, as long as their gun works and they have paint then they're happy. I believe that the tournyballers are the ones that are going to have to worry about this stuff since they don't really have any say in what gun they use, what clothes they wear, what paint they shoot, or even what fields they play on.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoboCop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2004 at 11:46pm

I think they should take away the high end markers, give everyone a stock tippmann and let everyone play. Make the game the way it was started. A marker that does not shoot very fast, with a low feed rate. Make it just plain skill. No expensive barrels or anything. There we will have the kind of game that started it all. People won't lose their interest in paintball just because a low end marker beat a high end marker, because everyone has the same marker. This is just a thought, but wouldn't it be fun to play it the way the real fathers made the game.

I read an article once saying that two guys were mad at each other so they found a way to shoot paint at each other. They weren't mad after that. That is how paintball started. It was just a game, maybe to get even with someone or maybe just to have some fun.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CarbineKid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2004 at 11:49pm
RoboCop there was always low end and high end guns. Whats changed is the ROF between the two. I believe the "mentality" of the game has changed, and that in itself is whats killing the game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zekk895 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 December 2004 at 11:57pm
Paintball won't die.

With that said I have to agree with everyone who said that paintball is changing. It has become a sport of fast paced high price guns and speedball. I personally enjoy speedball. Not on the tournament cicuit, but on a saturday at a local field.

Since moving to college back in august I have played at 4 different fields. Everytime there have been people there. I have even goteen all 3 of my roomates into the sport, along with one of my roomates dad and sister. So is paintball growing of course it is all the time.

Is the old game of paintball dead? Yes. I don't play with my tippmann m98 anymore I use a 2001 autococker. I persoanlly do not care for the electro guns and the special shoes. I actually don't like playing against people who play with those things, but it is inevitable.

So if you think paintball is dying well mabye it will fade out, but I wont stop playing. It is about the only sport I have left to play. My football and wrestling days are over, so I won't ever stop playing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2004 at 12:02am

Somewhere, there is a buggywhip maker wondering where all of its employees and customers went...

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Liquid3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2004 at 12:57am
I think one of the main problems stems from the change from a small pastime where everyone was in the band of brothers, to a sport that is nationally known and played. The wise companies( I use that term loosely, greedy fits better ) see profit potential and leap. This causes all companies to start to protect what they consider "thiers" Once that happens, it becomes less polite, less personal, and more expensive (somebody is footing the legal bills and we all know who it ends up being).  I think we need to be very careful about how we act and are percieved by the general public as this happens. There has been alot of negative publicity already and I think we are not yet big enough to survive repeated national media stompings.If we add to that starting to tear ourselves apart infighting we'll just make it easier for those who are already out to get us. The founders are leaving because of all the companys fighting to get the most profit for themselves. The spirit of cooperation between companies, to further the sport are dwindling fast. Its all about the money now.The inventors never invent for profit only,It starts out as an idealistic dream of what it should or could be. there is a love of that sport or idea. and love can be betrayed. Just some stuff I've been chewing on awhile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote impulse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2004 at 1:35am
It's like everything else. Yes it's growing but the way it used too be has changed. It's not dying just changing in a way we don't want it too. I want to go back to the day's on a few people had angels or shockers and everyone is shootin pneumatic spyders, pirahnas, tippmanns etc etc. That's when I had the most fun. Now a day's everyone is looking how fast the marker shoots etc etc. Yes I like having a fast marker, but in rec ball (mostly what I play) anything over 20 bps is stupid fast. I haven't played in almost a year, and really I don't care to much. I know a lot of people getting out of paintball but yet know a lot getting it. It's almost like a cycle. Some stay in the whole time while most cycle out. The sport isn't dying, the cycle of people are.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Civilian Of Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2004 at 2:13am
Its became a sport.

Speedball is completely corporate. Don't care what you say.

Set locations, paid refs, paid staff, controlled enviroment, waivers/insurance, etc.

I kinda have an example of how corporate its getting, and has been. IMO Xball is the boost for the industry with its corporate involvment. Sorry, but if you arent sponsored, then you more then likely arent playing Xball. Just about every company has thier name plastered to several teams, looks good on us, looks better in the mags.

**edited** Clark obviously saw something in it by getting the NXL on Tv. BTW, you notice that the ONLY 2 teams on TV from the NXL are both SP teams? Strange and AA. You know that the ESPN crew came with enough film for 3-4 matches? How many did they record? 2. Are Aftershock and Oakland SP teams? Nope. What are they? Competion. Bob long timmys, and Dye DM4's.

What gun is a new person gunna want? What they see shooting that NXL legal 15bps f/a Shocker. Cuz all they saw AT ALL was a Shocker. Thanks SP. You took huge advantage over the situation. I still have yet to know WHY the ESPN crew tore down right before the oakland shock game, but im sure, as are many others that SP had contribution in it.

Its not really bad persay that the sport has moved this way. It may be more corporate ran, but the players like it, and they like it A LOT.

Cant really blame the Companys for changing it.. I mean most companys are ran by former players or current players. They know what we want, they know whats fun, they know how to make it better. Thats what they gave us.

PLUS Everyone wanted Paintball to go mainstream, and now it has, and this is how its ran
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rockerdoode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2004 at 3:02am
Originally posted by Civilian Of Civilian Of wrote:

Its became a sport.

Speedball is completely corporate. Don't care what you say.

Set locations, paid refs, paid staff, controlled enviroment, waivers/insurance, etc.

I kinda have an example of how corporate its getting, and has been. IMO Xball is the boost for the industry with its corporate involvment. Sorry, but if you arent sponsored, then you more then likely arent playing Xball. Just about every company has thier name plastered to several teams, looks good on us, looks better in the mags.

**edited** Clark obviously saw something in it by getting the NXL on Tv. BTW, you notice that the ONLY 2 teams on TV from the NXL are both SP teams? Strange and AA. You know that the ESPN crew came with enough film for 3-4 matches? How many did they record? 2. Are Aftershock and Oakland SP teams? Nope. What are they? Competion. Bob long timmys, and Dye DM4's.

What gun is a new person gunna want? What they see shooting that NXL legal 15bps f/a Shocker. Cuz all they saw AT ALL was a Shocker. Thanks SP. You took huge advantage over the situation. I still have yet to know WHY the ESPN crew tore down right before the oakland shock game, but im sure, as are many others that SP had contribution in it.

Its not really bad persay that the sport has moved this way. It may be more corporate ran, but the players like it, and they like it A LOT.

Cant really blame the Companys for changing it.. I mean most companys are ran by former players or current players. They know what we want, they know whats fun, they know how to make it better. Thats what they gave us.

PLUS Everyone wanted Paintball to go mainstream, and now it has, and this is how its ran

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sk8r4life432 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2004 at 3:07am
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

The same is true for Skateboarding. In the late 80s to early 90s skating was popular. It died for nearly ten years where it suddenly exploded and everyone skated, currently the trends are dying as the masses have switched to something else.

I staked the whole time, I had too switch to paintballing because my knees and ankles can no longer handle skateboarding any more.


I know exactly what ya mean. Years ago when I started skateboarding it was only me and a few friends, now I go out and there are dozens of folks skating and it seems to be almost everywhere. in the same manner when I first started paintballing the shops were smaller and the fields didnt have many people there, now you have to stand around and wait for one game to finish before playing.
           I believe that if anything our sport is "waking up" in that it is being takin away from smaller companies and owned by corprate business. after a few years it will begin to lose its momentium and the big business will see its profits shrinking and eventually sell out to a smaller company where it will return to what yall call the "golden age" of paintball. its a process just like any other and you can count it will follow the same rules. skateboarding has been doing it for years and years...so will paintball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sk8r4life432 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2004 at 3:11am
Originally posted by Zekk895 Zekk895 wrote:

Is the old game of paintball dead? Yes. I don't play with my tippmann m98 anymore I use a 2001 autococker.


but there are kids picking up right where you left off. check out sales on the m98c sometime. they are still selling great. just because it is changing doesnt mean there arent still aspects of the game that have remained the same. sure its changing but woodsball is still woodsball and speedball is still speedball. its not like change is a bad thing. if it werent for change I wouldent have my a-5.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badsmitty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2004 at 5:32am
Not dying.  It lost its soul in everyone's quest to make it better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BLand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2004 at 7:33am
i agree with badsmitty. its not going to go away, its just not going to be the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SebastianBlack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2004 at 8:45am
Originally posted by CarbineKid CarbineKid wrote:

The game of "paintball" as we knew it has long been dead. The game thats now being played is nothing more than a hollow shell of what once was. Paintball was once once a game of honor, brotherhood, tactics and skill. Today none of of those elements are present. Its gotten so bad I stoped playing the game I once loved.   


Ok, time for me to pipe up.
That is complete and utter B.S.
Paintball is still a very strong and growing sport. The difference is, it is growing in areas we just didnt see 12 to 14 years ago. Who the hell thought a marker would burp out 30 rounds a second. Noone, we joked about that stuff.

The same with loaders. Brass eagle was defending their intellectual property with Oddessy/Empire lawsuits. I dont agree with it, but thats how buisness is. The stuff with Oddessy happened a bit ago and why that got drug up now I'm not overly sure

Tom was being a bit too dramatic. But in all honesty, the industry hasnt changed all too much. There have always been cheaters. Noone can tell me otherwise. There have always been people that wanted to shoot a little faster then the next guy, thats still the same.

But Comraderie, skill, tactics. That is very much present still. I belong to a very good group of dedicated woodsball/scenario players. They play fair, their numbers have grown alot since the group started 3 years ago.The last time I played with them there were 2 13 year old girls out, it was their second time and they loved it.

I see alot of old people leaving, but only for one reason. Its their time. As was said before when someone leaves, someone else takes their place. Yeah, so big companies are getting involved. Big freakin deal, paintballs will get cheaper and markers will be more readily available. I could care less if WGP is making a spyderclone, thats just a rip on WGP. Most of that paragraph he wrote, he bashed others. That in my opinion was words coming from someone who gave up.
Tom Kaye was an innovator, but that spiel he rambled off really lowered the man in my eyes. How friggen old is Glenn Palmer no, No fooling he's going to retire. If he kept up he would have been out there with an iron lung playing and I would have felt almost guilty lighting him up. Budd Orr wasnt a spring chicken either. Give me a break, Tom is supposed to be someone to respect yet he just doesnt see everyone has a time. He bellied up because he didnt want to fight any longer, or he couldnt come up with a new innovation that gets his marker awake from anything smartparts can infringe on.
Look at enos and admiral senn. Two kids came out with an innovation that makes a carbine viable for speedball. Yet Tom couldnt do the same. Seeing that tells me one thing. Paintball will be fine and its about damn time Tom retired if the new innovators in paintball are already popping up. Yes, sad to see him go, yes, sad to see changes on the field, but no, I know for a damned fact, paintball is not dying. Its just moving how it is supposed to as it grows from its infancy to its teen years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdmiralSenn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2004 at 10:47am
I honestly don't think it's dying. What needs to happen is recball needs more publicity. Speedball isn't the majority, no matter what SP wants to imply. Watching the NXL on espn2 made me realize that at those speeds, paintball is more like laying down rope barriers that the other people can't cross. Properly planned, it would take almost no skill to destroy the other team compared to a woods environment (note that I have never played a woods game).

I think if there was somehow enough emphasis on the market that Tippmann feeds (recballers, woodsballers), we might see what people have been wanting for ages - a growth in the way paintball was meant to be played, rather than speedball *only*.

Hway, you better keep playing. Some day I'm going to the TWC, and you'd better be there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hwayhzrd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2004 at 11:14am

You got it, Admiral!

I am far too hooked to walk away from this sport, really.

Thank all of you who have thus far given serious responses to this topic.

As long as there are still people out there who still believe in the game and what it should stand for, nothing can kill paintball off.

However, there is much that we can do to help keep it on the correct path, and we need to align our forces and keep the message out there.

Namely, that we love this silly game, and we don't want it corrupted just for the sake of a few $$$.

There is plenty of opportunity to make money without killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rico's Revenge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2004 at 11:34am

Originally posted by AdmiralSenn AdmiralSenn wrote:

...Properly planned, it would take almost no skill to destroy the other team...

I agreed with alot of this until you said this.   The skill is in the planning and execution.   20 BPS doesn't scare me anymore... you deal with it and run through, around, under it.

As for the initial question, the sport is in fact growing.   As it grows it is experiencing its share of growing pains.   The "old guard" is just that now.   Old.   It is their time to retire, regardless of what field people are in, after the amount of years they have worked, they deserve the rest.   So basically, I don't see Tom Kaye and Glenn Palmer's retirement as a signal of doom.

While I agree that the corporate involvement has hurt the "old ways."   What truly is hurting paintball is the new players attitude.   You can't attract more interest to the sport with these morons that are out "Noob Hunting."   If you came out and try something new and were embarrassed at work or school because of 3 welts on your neck from some retard out "mowin' muppets," would you want to go back?   Of course not.  

The sport need embassadors as much as players.   I do place a little blame on the old guys for not prepping new people with the knowledge and heart that they put into the game.   In a perfect world every new player would be just like the Greg Hastings Paintball Game and would start out with a low level, slow, inaccurate marker and no skill and gradually build up on both.   But that is not how it is going to be.   You are going to see first time players show up with DM5s and 3 boxes of Ultra Evil and it is up to us to teach them the game.   As was mentioned earlier, we are the "Old Guard" now.   The fate of the sport rests in our hands.   You can either quit, sit back and watch things fall apart or get active and teach people about the SPORT... the rest will come.

I didn't vote in the poll, I think the answer is still out there.   Everyone here can make a difference.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rockerdoode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2004 at 12:47pm
       I said what I said because I was shocked you could ask something like that, seriously.  It is such a great game and a real learning experiance as to teamwork and making new friends and becomming better freinds with the ones you already have.  I was just kind of taken aback at you question because of that, just because it's going into the hands of corporate scumbags that doesn't mean anything, it shouldn't affect us and how or when we play at all.
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