if you dont like smart parts come here

Read the court's decision. SP DID invent (at least in part) the technology behind main patent. But, like idiots, they didn't get the other co-inventor's signature on the employment agreement that assigned the co-inventor's rights to the patent. WDP cleverly bought those rights from the co-inventor.

WDP won because of clever lawyering and because of SP's stupidity - NOT because SP didn't invent anything.

Re-read the posts prior to this

AGD voluntarily stopped production - partially because of fear of lawsuits, but voluntary nonetheless. AKA was infringing on SP's patent. Doesn't matter if it is SP's or WDP's patent - AKA was infringing, as was ICD.

You might as well be mad at the VHS people for shutting down BetaMax. That's what people with patents do. That's why we have patents.

Since when is going against your principles or facing being shut down a "voluntary" choice? Assuming your principles matter to you, it's no choice at all. Unless your principles don't contradict staying in business, you have no choice.

You have been reading too much Doc Nickels...

Assuming Tippmann could have patented the ASA (which is by no means certain), then yes, there would be a royalty fee on each ASA sold. But so what? You pay a royalty fee on each DVD player you buy - has that made DVD players impossibly expensive? Of course not.

Of course, if Tippmann had patented the ASA, somebody else may have invented something different and better, or maybe direct-attach tanks like AIR would be more popular. Or something. The world isn't as simple as Doc makes it out to be.

And, further, to hold up Tippmann as some kind of model of business kindness is silly. How many patents does Tippmann hold? (Answer - lots) How come there isn't a Cyclone on every Spyder? Or a Flatline on every ATS gun? Because Tippmann won't let them, that's why. Bottom line - as to patent management, Tippmann DOES follow the same practices as SP. If ICD came out with a Cyclone clone tomorrow, you can bet that Tippmann would sue the next day.

Is it possible that Tippmann passed up an opportunity to patent something? Sure. Does that mean that Tippmann is goody-two-shoes, and SP is the devil? Of course not.

I don't read Doc Nickel's stuff. I got the patent info from the US Patent and Trade Offices.

The argument here is not that the items are horribly expensive. It's that the money goes to a different company than the one you're supporting. So if you don't like SP but buy a Spyder with an SP-licensed board, you're effectively supporting SP.

I did not say Tippmann was a business model. I'm saying that they care about their customers (compare Tippmann customer support complaints to SP support complaints).

No, Tippmann does NOT follow SP's practices. The ASA is a universally used part. There is already competition for the cyclone from several existing products - Warp feeds, force-feeds, agitators. ASA vs 12 gram.. hmmm... Obvious inferiority, hence why patenting the ASA would be "evil". Monopolizing the clearly superior item is not nice. The Cyclone is not clearly superior to all other loaders. The Flatline is similarly of dubious results (otherwise everyone would have one that could afford them).

Electronics, as broad as SP's supposed patents are, is a very broad range of products. There are tons of variations on products that all "use a solenoid to fire a paintball marker". Example: Compare a mag to an inline blowback, or an ATS gun.

If ICD came out with a Cyclone tomorrow, it would be Tippmann's right to sue. They clearly state that it's patented, and they didn't wait for a few years to say "Oh gosh, we have the patent to this! I'm suing!" the way SP did.

Tippmann is not a goody-two-shoes. I support Tippmann because I have yet to see them patent something that's universally applicable (as the Cyclone and Flatline are not).

I jokingly say that SP is the devil, because they have shut down numerous guns and hurt the sport quite badly, in my opinion. If Tippmann had patented the ASA, I would have been upset (had I been of the age to know about it and care).

Innovation? Exactly what is innovative about an ICD gun? Patent is there to encorage innovation. The reason SP was able to shut down ICD was because ICD wasn't being innovative. Patent law allows you to patent innovation, including improvements over old patents.

How about DeadlyWind's Hairtrigger? There's some innovation for you, brought about in part (IMO) by determination not to use electronics. Qloader, Cyclone, Flatline - THAT is innovation.

But more importantly - if patents don't hold up, nobody would bother to innovate, because infringers like ICD would come along and rip off your stuff.

SP did (TMK) nothing different from every other company that isn't being run from a garage.

Thank you. I then include your argument in the "ludicrous" category.