if you dont like smart parts come here

Riiiiight. Smart Parts "invented" these things.. so why did WDP win the lawsuit?

People hate them because they shut down production of the X-mag, E-mag, Viking, and Excalibur.

For comparison purposes:

If Tippmann followed the same practices, they would have patented the ASA way back when, and we'd either all be using 12 grams or every gun with an ASA would owe Tippmann money for each unit produced.

Similarly, when Smart Parts messes with these other companies (AGD and AKALMP), they force them to either pay money, or they shut down new innovations based on this technology (electronics).

Man, I wish I had that SP logo animation.

Clark Kent wrote: To summarize:  Most people dislike SP because they (not SP) are stupid sheep.

I dislike smart parts because they have a totally BS patent that theoretically claims 90% of electronic guns. Even though i hate electros, the libertarian in me makes me despise the idiots that operate a business on those principles.

I dont jump on bandwagons.

Economics is more than just supply and demand.   Economics includes the motives that drive sales.   Instead of relying on their ability to create a better product, SP has tried to limit the choices available to consumers in their attempt to drive sales.

SP is basing their lawsuit on a creation of a microswitch that operates a solenoid to cycle a paintball marker.   The actual inventors did NOT work for SP at the time however they sold their design and the rights to it to SP... the marker they had was the Shocker.

SP used their purchased rights to patent the process then proceeded to sue mainly the smaller PB manufacturers for unauthorized use of the switch.   Their main goal was to force these businesses under or get them to pay a royalty for each and every marker sold.   They were successful in forcing AKA out of business and the world lost a great company.   NPS and Kingman folded and agreed to pay the royalty, this was mainly for the Intimidators and Spyders.   SP ran into a problem when they went after WDP, the makers of the Angel.  

WDP did their research and discovered that the person that actually invented the solenoid/switch was not compensated by SP.   This person worked for the company that developed the system but had left the company before the rights were sold to SP.   WDP bought the unpaid developers rights to the patent and in court proved that they had the right to share the patent.  In effect, SP lost.

The above would have been MORE than enough for me to dislike SP and to perform my right as a consumer and NOT give them my money.

Then, at the X-Ball portion of the World Cup, the Gardner's (SP) screwed the Oakland Assassins and Chicago Aftershock by getting the ESPN film crew to leave early and not film the game that they were contractually obligated to film.   As a result, both teams boycotted SP and refused to play.   Obviously, those are sketchy details... you can search pbnation.com or flagstation.com for more details on that fiasco.

Anywhoo, these are my reasons.   I am not a sheep either.   I am not a un-educated idiot.   There are the facts, make your own decision.

AdmiralSenn wrote: Riiiiight. Smart Parts "invented" these things.. so why did WDP win the lawsuit?

Read the court's decision.  SP DID invent (at least in part) the technology behind main patent.  But, like idiots, they didn't get the other co-inventor's signature on the employment agreement that assigned the co-inventor's rights to the patent.  WDP cleverly bought those rights from the co-inventor.

WDP won because of clever lawyering and because of SP's stupidity - NOT because SP didn't invent anything.

People hate them because they shut down production of the X-mag, E-mag, Viking, and Excalibur.

AGD voluntarily stopped production - partially because of fear of lawsuits, but voluntary nonetheless.  AKA was infringing on SP's patent.  Doesn't matter if it is SP's or WDP's patent - AKA was infringing, as was ICD.

You might as well be mad at the VHS people for shutting down BetaMax.  That's what people with patents do.  That's why we have patents.

For comparison purposes: If Tippmann followed the same practices, they would have patented the ASA way back when, and we'd either all be using 12 grams or every gun with an ASA would owe Tippmann money for each unit produced.

You have been reading too much Doc Nickels...

Assuming Tippmann could have patented the ASA (which is by no means certain), then yes, there would be a royalty fee on each ASA sold.  But so what?  You pay a royalty fee on each DVD player you buy - has that made DVD players impossibly expensive?  Of course not.

Of course, if Tippmann had patented the ASA, somebody else may have invented something different and better, or maybe direct-attach tanks like AIR would be more popular.  Or something.  The world isn't as simple as Doc makes it out to be.

And, further, to hold up Tippmann as some kind of model of business kindness is silly.  How many patents does Tippmann hold?  (Answer - lots)  How come there isn't a Cyclone on every Spyder?  Or a Flatline on every ATS gun?  Because Tippmann won't let them, that's why.  Bottom line - as to patent management, Tippmann DOES follow the same practices as SP.  If ICD came out with a Cyclone clone tomorrow, you can bet that Tippmann would sue the next day.

Is it possible that Tippmann passed up an opportunity to patent something?  Sure.  Does that mean that Tippmann is goody-two-shoes, and SP is the devil?  Of course not.

Similarly, when Smart Parts messes with these other companies (AGD and AKALMP), they force them to either pay money, or they shut down new innovations based on this technology (electronics).

Innovation?  Exactly what is innovative about an ICD gun?  Patent is there to encorage innovation.  The reason SP was able to shut down ICD was because ICD wasn't being innovative.  Patent law allows you to patent innovation, including improvements over old patents.

How about DeadlyWind's Hairtrigger?  There's some innovation for you, brought about in part (IMO) by determination not to use electronics.  Qloader, Cyclone, Flatline - THAT is innovation.

But more importantly - if patents don't hold up, nobody would bother to innovate, because infringers like ICD would come along and rip off your stuff.

SP did (TMK) nothing different from every other company that isn't being run from a garage. 

I got that... nothing meant by it.

I have read the Patent, the Patent Judgement and a whole lot of other junk that would bore most.

To delv further into the case, SP did NOT invent the system.   It was actually developed by a guy named Dr. Ed Hensel who was a professor at the University of New Mexico.   Dr. Hensel joined up with a company called Pneu Ventures which was owned by Ray Gaston and Dave Smith.   Pneu Ventures had a document prepared which stated that any ideas of the people involved with Pneu Ventures would be corporate property.   Dr. Hensel refused to sign this and they never pursued it.  

Since there was no one at Pneu Ventures that had a clue about electronics and incorporating them into a PB marker, they asked Dr. Hensel to develop the system, which he did in his garage at home.   Then he brought the system to Pneu Ventures and they incorporated it into their new marker.  

When SP filed for the patent, they named only the Gardner's, Gaston and Smith as the "inventors."   Dr. Hensel was left off.   Throughout the proceedings, it was shown that the Gardner's had absolutely nothing to do with the invention and couldn't even explain how it worked.   Close to the same was true for Gaston and Smith.

Dr. Hensel was the sole inventor and now WDP is suing to have the SP patent revoked and issued to them as the owners of the rights that Dr. Hensel sold them.   I do not believe that they will be sucessful with that.   But, what that does is open up a bidding war between SP and WDP with the rest of the PB marker manufacturers.   My hope is that WDP will sell the rights for a very nominal fee and in effect make the patent available for general use.

The day people stop whining and fighting against un-ethical business practices is the day that I will retire.   Yes, there are many cut-throat business people out there.   But, they are in the minority by an immense margin to those who would rather do the right thing.   You hear about the people like SP and Bill Gates that make the noise, but it is always the sqeaky wheel that gets the grease.

this is reallly funny but i was jsut wonderign dont get your undies in a bundle and just to tell you i like them

zombieman wrote: this is reallly funny but i was jsut wonderign dont get your undies in a bundle and just to tell you i like them

what the hell did you just attempt to say?

clark kent & lightningbolt & DracoPlasm own all of you

(forgot which way the "<>" goes.)

I like smart parts, there guns are good. So what, what they did. Boo Hoo, even if the compines were around, your stuff would be the same price. Sp will never take over the pb industry, if there the only company left (never will happen,ever) the government will step in, pay for a company to get started, and let it go. Grow the hell up. You don't work for the companies that Sp but out of business, you dont get any money from them being around, what do you get? One or Two products that you MIGHT buy?

ThEeViLcHiCkEn wrote: clark kent & lightningbolt & DracoPlasm own all of you (forgot which way the "<>" goes.) I like smart parts, there guns are good.

If you wan I could make this as to wht SP markers do infact suck beyond all recognition.

Boo Hoo, even if the compines were around, your stuff would be the same price.

But they wold be available. there wouldnt be any last DC viking, or last 10 vikings. The same with excals, e-mags, and x-mags.

Grow the hell up. You don't work for the companies that Sp but out of business, you dont get any money from them being around, what do you get? One or Two products that you MIGHT buy?

If you want I can give you the aim of someone whose dreams were crushed because AKA can no longer make any markers. He planned on working somehow and oding something(I cant remember what) for AKA, but now he cant. Though if you did try and talk to him about that he would just block you.

I dont like SP because they make inferioro markers, and sell them for way more than they should. I dont like them because when I watch the NXL on ESPN, I wont get to see the third game I was suposed to because SP caused the 3rd and 4th place game to not be shown. I dont like them because I can never buy an 05 viking.