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Marine kills unarmed man

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Slothbutt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slothbutt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2004 at 2:25am
I try to put myself in the situation the marine was in..
You see he is faking he's dead, he makes no attempt to surrender, you don't know if the guy is holding on to a granade under his clothes. At that point I don't care what the media's gonna think, I wanna live and this terrorists would kill me and everyone else in the room in a second..

You are in a war zone. You don't have time to think about it..you can't hesitate or you might be coming home in a box.

It's easy to say handcuff him and pin him up with the rest of the prisoners while sitting at your computer..but when your there and your life is on the line it's shot first and let allah sort it out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2004 at 2:28am
I wasnt there but that is what I would be arguing if I was his defense attorney, or Jag officer, or whatever they get as counsil.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatman Lash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2004 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:

Originally posted by Bango Bango wrote:

Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:

Originally posted by evil_fingers evil_fingers wrote:

Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:

Originally posted by Bango Bango wrote:

Dune, you still haven't told me what you think the Marine should have done instead. You keep saying how wrong it was, tell us how you think he should have handled it.


Perhaps he should have not killed the unarmed, wounded Iraqi so we wouldn't be in this mess?

Try saying that to the innocent non combatants that were being beheaded and mutalated by the Insurgents.



So we should stoop down to their level?

As I said, even if you are for killing every Iraqi we come into contact with, this killing clearly has been less than beneficial to our "cause"...

How is it less beneficial? One less insurgent to worry about.

Read Fatman Lash's post, it pretty much covers the fact that the only way to handle it was to shoot him.



This isn't that difficult.

First, Fatman's most recent post lacked both grammar and an explanation as to how that was the only way to handle the situation.

Second, the action is less beneficial because now there is a video of a Marine shooting an unarmed, injured Iraqi circulating around the world--make of that what you will.

you think you have to be a freakin Harverd scholar  to prove a point by using perfect grammer? I laugh at you for that and I digitally kick you for that one to. Ok, if all you people that are saying the Marine should not of shot him can give me a viable way to handle it, without there being the possibility of the death of one or more soldiers. I will leave this topic never to return. BUT if I can find one way that it couldnt work, then you fail to prove there was a batter way to handle it. If you can give me ONE good way, just one, then I will leave.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote new002 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2004 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by Fatman Lash Fatman Lash wrote:

Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:

Originally posted by Bango Bango wrote:

Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:

Originally posted by evil_fingers evil_fingers wrote:

Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:

Originally posted by Bango Bango wrote:

Dune, you still haven't told me what you think the Marine should have done instead. You keep saying how wrong it was, tell us how you think he should have handled it.


Perhaps he should have not killed the unarmed, wounded Iraqi so we wouldn't be in this mess?

Try saying that to the innocent non combatants that were being beheaded and mutalated by the Insurgents.



So we should stoop down to their level?

As I said, even if you are for killing every Iraqi we come into contact with, this killing clearly has been less than beneficial to our "cause"...

How is it less beneficial? One less insurgent to worry about.

Read Fatman Lash's post, it pretty much covers the fact that the only way to handle it was to shoot him.



This isn't that difficult.

First, Fatman's most recent post lacked both grammar and an explanation as to how that was the only way to handle the situation.

Second, the action is less beneficial because now there is a video of a Marine shooting an unarmed, injured Iraqi circulating around the world--make of that what you will.

you think you have to be a freakin Harverd scholar  to prove a point by using perfect grammer? I laugh at you for that and I digitally kick you for that one to. Ok, if all you people that are saying the Marine should not of shot him can give me a viable way to handle it, without there being the possibility of the death of one or more soldiers. I will leave this topic never to return. BUT if I can find one way that it couldnt work, then you fail to prove there was a batter way to handle it. If you can give me ONE good way, just one, then I will leave.

  CALL in air support to level the building. 

(Big problem is you get a backlash because it was a religious building, of course the leftists around here don't see a problem with combatants using a place of sanctuary to stage attacks on Iraqi national troups and our guys)

  Using a religious sanctuary to stage attacks immediately voids any protections such a place may normally provide.



Edited by new002
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatman Lash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2004 at 5:40pm
lol

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CarbineKid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2004 at 10:47pm
"(Big problem is you get a backlash because it was a religious building, of course the leftists around here don't see a problem with combatants using a place of sanctuary to stage attacks on Iraqi national troups and our guys)"

I actually agree with you, thats why we should deploy nerve gas....a modern way of "smokin them out". It leaves the building intact and kills every terrorist in it

Edited by CarbineKid
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frozen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2004 at 10:53pm
But what about the nerve gas drifting in the wind, there are civilians around, right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2004 at 10:59pm
I think he was kidding...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatman Lash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2004 at 5:38pm

and then that Insurgent sees the gas and pulls a grenade out and blows the place up.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frozen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2004 at 5:39pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

I think he was kidding...



The smiley is tought to decode at times.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote untouchable555 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2004 at 5:50pm

I agree with slothbutt

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CarbineKid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2004 at 8:43pm
I was suggesting that the US use everything in its arsenal to defeat the terrorists. Now if everyone is whineing that we are putting holes in buildings that the enemy is useing for cover, then why not use gas. Seriously it would save the building, but the wind issue would be a problem....but Im sure our guys could fix that.   If you remember the russians used gas in "theater hostage situation" a few years back. It worked...of course it killed some hostages, but in these situations you have no hostages, only terrorist targets

Edited by CarbineKid
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2004 at 8:51pm

The Russians used gas earlier this year, in a school.  But that was intended to be non-lethal gas.  The deaths were unintended, and very unpopular at every level.

When you say "nerve gas," that means something else entirely - Sarin, mustard gas, that type of thing.  AKA Weapon of Mass Destruction, of the exact type we were accusing Saddam of having/using.

Simply possessing such a weapon would violate all the treaties to which the US is a party - actually using it would completely void any moral ground the US could stand on - ever. 

While viscerally satisfying to contemplate the "nuke'em/gas'em" tactical approach, such an action would completely undermine every single strategic goal we have.



Edited by Clark Kent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evil_fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2004 at 10:12pm

Originally posted by Slothbutt Slothbutt wrote:

I try to put myself in the situation the marine was in..
You see he is faking he's dead, he makes no attempt to surrender, you don't know if the guy is holding on to a granade under his clothes. At that point I don't care what the media's gonna think, I wanna live and this terrorists would kill me and everyone else in the room in a second..

You are in a war zone. You don't have time to think about it..you can't hesitate or you might be coming home in a box.

It's easy to say handcuff him and pin him up with the rest of the prisoners while sitting at your computer..but when your there and your life is on the line it's shot first and let allah sort it out.

Yer the only one who has answered my question as to "what would you do in that Marine's situation"...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CarbineKid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2004 at 11:41pm
actually using it would completely void any moral ground the US could stand on - ever
LOL yeah, but at least the precious buildings wuld be saved.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slothbutt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2004 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by evil_fingers evil_fingers wrote:


Yer the only one who has answered my question as to "what would you do in that Marine's situation"...



Everyone else seems to just want to bash the Marine and military while not coming up with any other solution.
It's a war are guys are there to kill there guys (and there doing a fantastic job)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evil_fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2004 at 12:04am
Originally posted by Slothbutt Slothbutt wrote:

Originally posted by evil_fingers evil_fingers wrote:


Yer the only one who has answered my question as to "what would you do in that Marine's situation"...



Everyone else seems to just want to bash the Marine and military while not coming up with any other solution.
It's a war are guys are there to kill there guys (and there doing a fantastic job)

Exactly!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slimz.357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2004 at 11:06am

This topic has been battered about numerous times on this forum as well as many others. Everone will continue to have thier own perspective on what happened, and in all likelyhood, no one is going to change thier mind.

That's human nature: Stubborn.

Both sides of the arguement have been well covered, and I think its time to let it drop.



Edited by Slimz.357
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duckncover21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2004 at 1:37pm

Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Wow, you guys are firm believers that the military doesn't mess up and always "just does it's job." I'll just stick to my guns and at least try to be somewhat objective about this, because it seems as if no one else will. Being better safe than sorry is okay when we kill someone, but isn't if they are just protecting themselves. We are the invaders, they want nothing to do with us in their country, I know I would take up arms against America too if I was an Iraqi. It just seems as if people think are military is filled with above the law, god-guided men and women. These are people too, and they will and do make mistakes. What that guy did, was a mistake. I understand he was scared and worried for the rest of his men, but there are many angles that should have been taken, and if those steps were not taken first, then it is obvious that the soldier should be punished. I'm not saying that he should get the electric chair, I mean, I don't expect him to be the most calmed down person; however, he was quick on the trigger and did not think first. You can call it "liberal media" if you want, it always is just a "liberal" thing when some republican gets angry at what they see on tv.

 

Do you not realize that they were in captivity when SH was there??  These aren't the everday iraquis that are fighting us you moron!!  Those people are on our side!!  Didn't you see them tear down that statue when we took bagdahd???  The ones who are fighting us are the ones who are loyal to saddam!!  The normal people are happy because if you didnt know SH was a lot like Hitler in the fact that he liked to kill a whole lotta people if they didnt like the way things were!!  But I bet you would fight for them if you were there cuz we can all see that you have your head up your  



Edited by duckncover21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duck68tapeb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2004 at 3:02pm

Originally posted by adrenalinejunky adrenalinejunky wrote:

Not directly related to the specific incident, but something i saw on another forum i frequent that pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter...
Quote
Im sitting here watching MSNBC and they are talking about, suprise suprise, Fallujah. Anyway, I think its absolutely disgusting that the media is allowed so close to actuall fighting! Now, they are grilling some Marines and Soldiers for killing the enemy! Are you insane? One Marine in question apparently shot an insurgent, even though he appeared wounded. Well guess what CNN and so forth........these holes are booby trapping themselves with explosives, so when they are shot, they can detonate themselves when the American troops go to aid them, as per the damned Geneva Conventions. This particular Marine was actually SHOT IN THE FACE THE DAY BEFORE! HELLO?!?!?! Anyone out there in media-land listening to this? This man was shot in the face, and one day later, at his own request, was back out fighting the enemy! Why dont you lazy arm chair quarterbacks get off your butts and get the stories that matter out to the public. In your search to be so friggen politically correct, all you do it make us look like barbarians. Then you bring on so called military experts who are nothing more than tree hugging pansies, liberals at that! Come on, be fair to the troops and let them do their jobs. Apparently you losers arent familiar with the mentality of "better him than me." These insurgents could just do the right thing and let the new Iraqi government take over.......if you really want us out so bad, then sit down and shut up! If you want to attack us, then be prepared to reap the fury of the beast! And to the media, this is war, its not a friggen Candyland game, okay? Shut your stupid cameras off and shove them somewhere the sun dont shine. I was interviewed by the media when I got home last year from the war and had no problem doing so, but it seems like now the American public doesnt have enough drama with Jerry Springer and all the reality shows, they want to know everything thats going on over there. Well I personally dont think people should know everything, if you want to know, join the military, until then, shut up and watch Survivor. Hindsight is a . If I wouldve known how the media would try and portray us when we are just doing our jobs over there, I wouldve told them to kiss my and get the away from me and my family. Its not fair at all. You know the worst part? We here more about fricken Iraqis who are being killed for attacking us then we do about American heroes who lay their lives down for this country. How many times does Fox News, CNN or anyone else show pictures and names of those brave Americans who made the ultimate sacrifice for the USA? How about a little salute and tribute to honor them? So a few Iraqis got stripped and had pics taken, OH NO! Guys like that were flying planes into our buildings, taking hostages, cutting off heads and bombing crap for years and now we have to be nicey nice with them? I would never shed a tear for the media personel captured over there, they shouldnt be there. I think Ive seen 2 or 3 National Geographic reporters who traveled with the 3rd ID into Iraq last year who actually seemed to care........other than that, they are out for a story........how ironic that their capture becomes their best story ever! GET OUT AND LEAVE US TO DO OUR JOBS!
lol that is funny i didn't read any of it but the vary end were it says get out and leave us to do our jobs i thought about the mexicans how everyone is **edited**ing about how they take our jobs

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