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A tactical discussion

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Robotech View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robotech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A tactical discussion
    Posted: 19 October 2004 at 12:07am

Clinton...this is the exact reason why I hate the term.  You are very correct.  There are a lot of people out there that claim they are snipers and from what I've seen, not a one of them can even come close.  I've found that usually the guys that can come the closest to pulling it off...never ever call themselves snipers.

As always, it comes down to semantics.  Again, in Scenario games you can have guys that play the role of the sniper.  They move into a position where they can observe the other team's movement and report back to their HQ helping their side determine what to do next.  They may take out a couple guys here and there when they need to or when an opportunity presents itself that will help their side's cause but that's about it.  Their job...gather intel.  It's either that or help gaurd the CP but I think that is more of an ambush tactic than a Sniper tactic even if they are shooting from a concealed position and using the firefight over the CP to mask their own shots so they can remain hidden.

In woodsball there are very few moments when anything like this exists EXCEPT in the case of capture the flag where again it is part of the defense of the flag station. In elimination or speedball though, the role of a sniper just does not benifit the team and cannot properly be played out even in these limited terms.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrunkDriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2004 at 6:45pm
Where is Durr? He is my hero because he fights for the truth, the truth that there are no snipers in paintball. He does what the rest of us are to lazy and do not have the time to do, argue with these "noobs" about snipers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheClinton001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2004 at 4:14pm
there really isnt a sniper in the game of paintball. some people that stay in the back and pick people off, they call themselves snipers. Many people arent good so they just buy this high tech guns and say they snipe. A sniper has superm aim, camoflauge, and a real gun that is silent. Many of the so called snipers can not use silent gun, have no aim what so ever and no camo. Ther is NO "sniper" in paintball im sorry to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robotech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2004 at 4:09pm

There is not much here to disagree with.  About the only thing I've ever had a problem with is people believing you have to be outside the effective range of your target to be considered a "sniper".  Up until recently, snipers used weapons that had similar ranges to those carried by their targets. Now, range is just one more way for a sniper to conceal himself. 

Seriously though, you guys have posted some of the best information on this subject that I've seen.  I dispise the term "sniper" when it comes to paintball because unless you're talking a scenario game where you can do the recon work and what not the ability to be like a true sniper doesn't come around often.  What really gets me though are those guys that say "Yea, I'm a sniper." or "I like to snipe." and you watch them play and realize they have no CLUE what they are talking about.

You'll see my signature and think I believe otherwise, but I use to play old school stock class back when that's all there was to play.  You get that mentality of "This shot has to count" when you play that way.  So, to me, One Shot One Kill is more about my ability to make the shot count than being a "sniper".  Sure I have a marker that most define as a "sniper setup" but that's used for scenario games where I can do recon work and where taking out someone who is a dynamic leader at a critical point might help my side gain the advantage.  But I'll never call myself a sniper.  I'm just a member of the team...and on a speedball court I'm more of the guy that stays in back, keeps the other guy's heads down, and am shouting out locations for my front guys.

Anyway, again, best Paintball Sniper thread I've ever seen.  I'd love to see the term dropped from paintball as well just because so many people have no idea what it is to truely be a "sniper".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2004 at 10:09am
IM STILL A BETTER SNIPER
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MROD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2004 at 9:58am
lol good deal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowminion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2004 at 5:00pm

Some people will be hostile and immature ,no matter what information you give them .

I say their loss , and lets play some ball

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Giblet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2004 at 3:54pm

imo i figure let people call it what they will. I figure if you can conceal yourself and hit someone before they have much time to react and pick targets in a manner so that other members of the opposition dont know exactly where you are, to me i would call you and effective "sniper". You dont have to be an exelent shot. if you can get someone close enough that if you shot 5-10 balls you could hit them with one i think you could be effective.

on the lines of sharp shooters, i see them as people not looking for total concealment. kind of a suport possition. you have someone with a high rof gun go ahead and once they encounter the opposition a sharpshooter who fallows beind would flank a little and use thier better marksmanship to take them out. they need to have some breathing room but dont need much. enough to alow them to aim more than most snap shots. If the fire turns twords him the guy with the high rof gun starts firing more agresivly to get the attention back on him.

tl;dr - if your guna go and hide and wait for someone to get close enough for you to get him i would say your sniping but i think a sharp shooter is not a position that would be played by someone sitting and waiting but more an agressive possition played to suport the frontmen.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MROD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2004 at 3:17pm

Actually [FI] ruined it.

FI, I don't know what your problem is but your responce was hostile and immature.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarge14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2004 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by BearClaw BearClaw wrote:

Alright this was a well written post my only argument here is that the
above player can simply be called a good player not nessisarily a
sniper. 

I do now alot of players that play in a very similare fashion to what
you have said.  BUt they thems selfs dont call themselfs snipers
there just more advanced players on the team.



I play with a guy like that too, hes just too darn sneaky and qiuet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abegarza911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2004 at 2:28pm
is just people that do not understand the term we are talking about
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evil_fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2004 at 2:00pm
Oh great, this was a clean thread...till some jerk^  had to screw things up....good goin you jerk.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbratbomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2004 at 9:51pm

me and my buddys when we play 3 on 3 in the woods.. we usually space out about 10 to 15 feet apart so we can still see each other .. and search for the other team.. since we are in the woods and stay in areas that one shot most likely wont hit us.. like brush for example.. usually we wont get hit if spotted.. when we find someone from another team.. two of our guys will take cover and keep the other team busy by shooting at them.. and while the other team doesnt notice i will drop back and go around the other team and get behind them without being detected.. sneak up on them and unleash as much paint as i can on them.. i'm a new player but its worked every game i've played in

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abegarza911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2004 at 8:45am

from experience i can say that ther is only 1 type of sniper and not 3 and that one is the one that the millitary trains, the one that learned the skills that the millitary teaches.

-Some doctrines distinguish a "sniper" from a "sharpshooter" or "designated marksman". While snipers are intensively trained to master field craft and camouflage, these skills are not required for sharpshooters. Snipers often perform valuable reconnaissance and have a psychological impact on the enemy. A sharpshooter's role is mainly to extend the reach of the squad to which he is attached.

These differences in role and training affect doctrines and equipment.

Snipers rely almost exclusively on stealthy bolt-action rifles while a sharpshooter can effectively utilize a faster-firing, but more conspicuous semi-automatic rifle. In some military doctrines, a two-man sniper team consists of a designated marksman who uses a bolt-action rifle, and a sniper support (usually the spotter) who uses a semiautomatic sniper rifle, or at times an assault rifle or carbine.

A sniper's intensive training, forward placement and surveillance duties make the role more strategic than a squad-level sharpshooter. Thus, sharpshooters are often attached at the squad level while snipers are often attached at higher levels such as battalion.

-Even before firearms were available, there have been soldiers, such as archers, specially trained as elite marksmen.

-Delta Force snipers Gary Gordon and Randy Shughart were both killed in action during the Battle of Mogadishu. It is estimated that together they sniped over 100 Somalis. Both men received the Congressional Medal of Honor, posthumously, for their actions
-The primary mission of a sniper in combat is to support combat operations by delivering precise long-range fire on selected targets. By this, the sniper creates casualties among enemy troops, slows enemy movement, frightens enemy soldiers, lowers morale, and adds confusion to their operations. The secondary mission of the sniper is collecting and reporting battlefield information.

a. A well-trained sniper, combined with the inherent accuracy of his rifle and ammunition, is a versatile supporting arm available to an infantry commander. The importance of the sniper cannot be measured simply by the number of casualties he inflicts upon the enemy. Realization of the sniper's presence instills fear in enemy troop elements and influences their decisions and actions. A sniper enhances a unit's firepower and augments the varied means for destruction and harassment of the enemy. Whether a sniper is organic or attached, he will provide that unit with extra supporting fire. The sniper's role is unique in that it is the sole means by which a unit can engage point targets at distances beyond the effective range of the M16 rifle. This role becomes more significant when the target is entrenched or positioned among civilians, or during riot control missions. The fires of automatic weapons in such operations can result in the wounding or killing of noncombatants.

b. Snipers are employed in all levels of conflict. This includes conventional offensive and defensive combat in which precision fire is delivered at long ranges. It also includes combat patrols, ambushes, countersniper operations, forward observation elements, military operations in urbanized terrain, and retrograde operations in which snipers are part of forces left in contact or as stay-behind forces.

-In light infantry divisions, the sniper element is composed of six battalion personnel organized into three 2-man teams. The commander designates missions and priorities of targets for the team and may attach or place the team under the operational control of a company or platoon. They may perform dual missions, depending on the need. In the mechanized infantry battalions, the sniper element is composed of two riflemen (one team) located in a rifle squad. In some specialized units, snipers may be organized according to the needs of the tactical situation.

a. Sniper teams should be centrally controlled by the commander or the sniper employment officer. The SEO is responsible for the command and control of snipers assigned to the unit. In light infantry units, the SEO will be the reconnaissance platoon leader or the platoon sergeant. In heavy or mechanized units, the SEO may be the company commander or the executive officer. The duties and responsibilities of the SEO are as follows
(1) To advise the unit commander on the employment of snipers.

(2) To issue orders to the team leader.

(3) To assign missions and types of employment.

(4) To coordinate between the sniper team and unit commander.

(5) To brief the unit commander and team leaders.

(6) To debrief the unit commander and team leaders.

(7) To train the teams.

b. Snipers work and train in 2-man teams. One sniper's primary duty is that of the sniper and team leader while the other sniper serves as the observer. The sniper team leader is responsible for the day-to-day activities of the sniper team. His responsibilities are as follows:

(1) To assume the responsibilities of the SEO that pertain to the team in the SEO's absence.

(2) To train the team.

(3) To issue necessary orders to the team.

(4) To prepare for missions.

(5) To control the team during missions.

c. The sniper's weapon is the sniper weapon system. The observer has the M16 rifle and an M203, which gives the team greater suppressive fire and protection. Night capability is enhanced by using night observation devices.

1-3. PERSONNEL SELECTION CRITERIA
Candidates for sniper training require careful screening. Commanders must screen the individual's records for potential aptitude as a sniper. The rigorous training program and the increased personal risk in combat require high motivation and the ability to learn a variety of skills. Aspiring snipers must have an excellent personal record.

a. The basic guidelines used to screen sniper candidates are as follows:

(1) Marksmanship. The sniper trainee must be an expert marksman. Repeated annual qualification as expert is necessary. Successful participation in the annual competition-in-arms program and an extensive hunting background also indicate good sniper potential.

(2) Physical condition. The sniper, often employed in extended operations with little sleep, food, or water, must be in outstanding physical condition. Good health means better reflexes, better muscular control, and greater stamina. The self-confidence and control that come from athletics, especially team sports, are definite assets to a sniper trainee.

(3) Vision. Eyesight is the sniper's prime tool. Therefore, a sniper must have 20/20 vision or vision correctable to 20/20. However, wearing glasses could become a liability if glasses are lost or damaged. Color blindness is also considered a liability to the sniper, due to his inability to detect concealed targets that blend in with the natural surroundings.

(4) Smoking. The sniper should not be a smoker or use smokeless tobacco. Smoke or an unsuppressed smoker's cough can betray the sniper's position. Even though a sniper may not smoke or use smokeless tobacco on a mission, his refrainment may cause nervousness and irritation, which lowers his efficiency.

(5) Mental condition. When commanders screen sniper candidates, they should look for traits that indicate the candidate has the right qualities to be a sniper. The commander must determine if the candidate will pull the trigger at the right time and place. Some traits to look for are reliability, initiative, loyalty, discipline, and emotional stability. A psychological evaluation of the candidate can aid the commander in the selection process.

(6) Intelligence. A sniper's duties require a wide variety of skills. He must learn the following:

Ballistics.
Ammunition types and capabilities.
Adjustment of optical devices.
Radio operation and procedures.
Observation and adjustment of mortar and artillery fire.
Land navigation skills.
Military intelligence collecting and reporting.
Identification of threat uniforms and equipment.
b. In sniper team operations involving prolonged independent employment, the sniper must be self-reliant, display good judgment and common sense. This requires two other important qualifications: emotional balance and field craft.

(1) Emotional balance. The sniper must be able to calmly and deliberately kill targets that may not pose an immediate threat to him. It is much easier to kill in self-defense or in the defense of others than it is to kill without apparent provocation. The sniper must not be susceptible to emotions such as anxiety or remorse. Candidates whose motivation toward sniper training rests mainly in the desire for prestige may not be capable of the cold rationality that the sniper's job requires.

(2) Field craft. The sniper must be familiar with and comfortable in a field environment. An extensive background in the outdoors and knowledge of natural occurrences in the outdoors will assist the sniper in many of his tasks. Individuals with such a background will often have great potential as a sniper.

c. Commander involvement in personnel selection is critical. To ensure his candidate's successful completion of sniper training and contribution of his talents to his unit's mission, the commander ensures that the sniper candidate meets the following prerequisites before attending the US Army Sniper School:

Male.
PFC to SFC (waiverable for MSG and above).
Active duty or ARNG and USAR.
Good performance record.
No history of alcohol or drug abuse.
A volunteer (with commander recommendation).
Vision of 20/20 or correctable to 20/20.
No record of disciplinary action.
Expert marksman with M16A1 or M16A2 rifle.
Minimum of one-year retrainability.
Career management field 11.
Pass APFT (70 percent, each event).
-Each member of the sniper team has specific responsibilities. Only through repeated practice can the team begin to function properly. Responsibilities of team members areas follows:

a. The sniper--

Builds a steady, comfortable position.
Locates and identifies the designated target.
Estimates the range to the target.
Dials in the proper elevation and windage to engage the target.
Notifies the observer of readiness to fire.
Takes aim at the designated target.
Controls breathing at natural respiratory pause.
Executes proper trigger control.
Follows through.
Makes an accurate and timely shot call.
Prepares to fire subsequent shots, if necessary.
b. The observer--

Properly positions himself.
Selects an appropriate target.
Assists in range estimation.
Calculates the effect of existing weather conditions on ballistics.
Reports sight adjustment data to the sniper.
Uses the M49 observation telescope for shot observation.
Critiques performance.
-team firing techniques.
A sniper team must be able to move and survive in a combat environment. The sniper team's mission is to deliver precision fire. This calls for a coordinated team effort. Together, the sniper and observer--

Determine the effects of weather on ballistics.
Calculate the range to the target.
Make necessary sight changes.
Observe bullet impact.
Critique performance before any subsequent shots.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unicorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2004 at 4:21am
I hate the term sniper when applied to paintball. I don't even like it used by police, since they use different tactics and should be IMO called police marksmen, or sharpshooters. I've actually gone as far as posted (here I think) the actual Army definition of a sniper from an FM (field manual) on infantry tactics, and some "snipers" kept trying to argue that they fit those definitions in paintball. I suppose if you took a very, very loose interpretation of what a sniper is. Most of what people do when they call themselvs snipers is camping, or at best conducting a small point ambush. Hiding in the bushes and shooting at someone who walks past you. That is an ambush.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote [FI] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2004 at 4:14pm

Originally posted by MROD MROD wrote:

Props to you for serving in the Army. For 20+ years too. W00t Eh, it's difficault to give an intelligible response to an unintelligible statment. Forgive me.

I for one think snipers can be a very important factor in the game. Don't believe everything you think. w00t

As long as everyone on the team doesn't decide they want to be one. So who get's to be one and who don't? w00t

With my friends I usually play with only a 4-6 man team. We always choose one person to be the sniper. I love being the sniper mostly because it gives me more time to thin kabout stuff because I don't really have to run around alot. Yes, because you can cover a whopping radius of 30m on a 10 acre field when you "move slowly" and methodically. w00t

About the moving undetected part my friends and I recently came up with an effective way. I thought it might be cool to try this because one time when I plane was flying over I snuck right up on someone who was trying to flank my team by crawling around. I had all the noise cover from the plane I needed so I jus ran up took aim for alost a second in the copmplete open and shot one shot which hit him in the shoulder. w00t to you using 20-year old tactics

To take advantage of this I bought a few reall really cheap  way radios and to disstract ppl I throw it to to the other side of them where there is no rocks to break the radio and have my friends make some of noise into it so hes distracted. I can easily come up and shoot him without hm noticing or even if he does notice he thinks hes getting flanked so he panics. That means your friends have to make noise, they are focused on giving you elimination, etc...I don't believe you. w00t

My Flaltine really helps because I have alot of range so I can pick off kids from on top of a liff who think they are safely out of range. Yes, because we all know the Flatline has precision accuracy from 50m away...w00t

My favorite sniper points are usually on tp of rocky cliffs or the like so I have a great bray and brown with a little green camo suit. Also the most obvious place. Bad fieldcraft. Oh yeah...big towering cliffs, how dramatic. w00t

I think There you go again with that thinking...w00t

the sniper can be very useful because you can have 3-4 guys running around making the other team move whil your out of the action Exactly...out of the action...not really doing much...w00t

and just have to take aim at someone who thinks their safwe and noone is behind them. What happens if they suddenyl shift the battle and your plan is changed...what a waste of manpower and time...w00t

As long as the sniper ghas regualr combat skills as well then he wil lbe a good asset to the team. Becasue if the enemy finds out his position he will most likely have to evade and attack like a regular soldier. So as long as he gets it out of his head that he's only a sniper and cant run or do anything else he will be an effective asset to the team. How about break contact, sniper? w00t



Edited by [FI]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ph34r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2004 at 4:03pm

The rule of thumb is to pm Reb and ask if you can sticky it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Detz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2004 at 3:08pm
third that, sticky it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robert_Hawker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2004 at 2:42pm
Heck yea sticky this thing and we can stop flaming all the "Snipers" out there!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote evil_fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 October 2004 at 1:39pm

After reading this thread, I was thinking that this should be a "sticky" and it would give the new players (experienced or not) that are coming in each day something to read about and rethink on what they need to know when theyre playing the sport and the role that they are portraying.

 

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