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WDR-Tyger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WDR-Tyger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2004 at 2:21am

Originally posted by jeep 98 custom jeep 98 custom wrote:

A paintball gun can't shoot 200 FEET, much less 200 YARDS. Nice try, I can make things up too.

ACTUALLY...  With full arc, at 300 FPS, you CAN arc a paintball 300 feet or so.  Without a flatline.

-Tyger

Yeah, "that" Tyger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote noobs_r_4_kids Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2004 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by mod98commando mod98commando wrote:

I think you should embrace my philosophy of not caring what other people say or think about you or how you play. Everybody has their own opinion on the subject of snipers in paintball and that's fine, just let it be. You're a newer member so you probably don't know about the sniper debates that used to take place about every 3 seconds here. People would waste so much time trying to prove/disprove that there could be snipers in paintball and the debates would just get nowhere. People would start throwing insults over it and flaming, it was incredibly stupid. I was dumber then (hard to imagine yet true) so I participated in some but I realized that they were pointless and that everybody would stick to their opinion no matter what facts were presented to disprove it. What I learned from that stupidity is that it's best to just accept that people have a different opinion and to leave it at that, no matter how much you disagree. I highly recommend that you don't post about snipers anymore unless you want people to flame you like never before.
I agree with u man there were so many sniper debates (if u r wonderin why i know this and have like 10 posts its cause i forgot my password) anyway i think that anyone that starts up more sniper debates should be !!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mod98commando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2004 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by WDR-Tyger WDR-Tyger wrote:

...ACTUALLY...  With full arc, at 300 FPS, you CAN arc a paintball 300 feet or so.  Without a flatline.

-Tyger

Not accurately enough to land a one shot kill with any consistency. It's hard enough to get the shot on target and then you have to worry about it bouncing on top of that. Chances are you'll be wasting your time shooting like that. This reminds me of a funny story though. I built a practice field with my friends in a nearby patch of woods and just past the tree line was a baseball field where geese liked to walk around and "fertilize" the soil. Since there was nobody in sight and the geese routinely crap all over our field, we decided to have a little fun. They were at least 300 feet away from us so there was no way we could hit them normally. Since our field was at a lower elevation than the baseball field, there was a hillside right on the tree line. What we decided to do to test our skill as a team was to play artillery. One person held the gun at the bottom and guessed where the geese were, firing a shot in that direction. The other would be at the top of the hill and had to correct your aim judging by where the first shot landed. We actually hit a couple from quite a distance away like this, I wasn't expecting to hit anything. They weren't hurt at all, they were just a little freaked out.



Edited by mod98commando
oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland
Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey
Me: But only if they're hungary
Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaked588 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 October 2004 at 10:53pm
Originally posted by SportsJunky2004 SportsJunky2004 wrote:

Here this will end this piontless Sniper in paintball discussion once and for all. click this http://www.webdogradio.us/video/tipclip/s2/2WDR27xhi.wmv

watch it and learn

 very good video. hey that video reminded me of CKY!!! du... duhaste

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaintballkidEPS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2004 at 12:55pm
yo i play at an abandond factory and im not new ive played for 5 years and i get on the roof and shoot people without gettin hit i dont really play woodsball n e more mostly Scenerio and i say there is sniping in paintball
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FalloutMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2004 at 3:45pm
you are giving me a headache trying to even make sense of your arguement for snipers...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BassMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2004 at 5:26pm
More noobs and there sniping fanasty's. Jeeze, just think. In one year there gonna be thinking the same way we do about the ever annoying 'sniper' topics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FalloutMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2004 at 5:45pm
lol youve only been on for a couple months yourself it would seem :p
"They were convicted in federal court of pennsylvania for a telemarketing scam involving invention and patent fraud."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BassMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2004 at 5:52pm
Yes but I've been around long enough to notice about 15 different sniping topics.... Very disturbing lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FalloutMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2004 at 7:10pm
ive seen too many to count lol, the difference is now is that its much easier to fight it off because theres alot more proof (and at the same time alot of dishonesty) in circulation that people just need to tap into.
"They were convicted in federal court of pennsylvania for a telemarketing scam involving invention and patent fraud."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Model98Sniper1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2004 at 12:21am
yall dont get it (well most) i play on an island and it is very scary cause there are snipers all over the island and your constantly felling that every step that you take could be your last . now the island is made into a very good sniping place many places to hide and rack up like 10 kills in 4 games
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FalloutMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2004 at 7:33am
we get it thats not being a sniper though, people can call it a sniper, but its the same thing as blink 182 calling themselves death metal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2004 at 12:32pm

I think we need to define 'sniper'.

Sniper, within the military, is generally considered to be a person who engages targets with single, effective point shots at long ranges. You can do this with most rifles- some guys in my unit can get headshots at 500yds with 5.56 assault rifles. Snipers within our establishment though mean those who are specifically trained to do this while operating independently. A sniper will often wait days in one spot for their target. Does this happen in paintball? No.

A seperate term we use though is 'sharpshooter'. A soldier who, with our standard issue rifles (A Diemaco C7, in case anyone's curious) can fire very accurately at decent range, and effectively engage targets with little ammunition expenditure. They will often emply 'ambush' style tactics to engage a target at mid or short range. Is THIS possible in paintball? absolutely. With my flatline I can find a spot in the woods along the enemy axis of advance, adn wait. Eventually, a couple of them will get within a hundred feet or so, and I can effectively engage them, generally elss than 10 shots at a hundred feet to take them both down, adn that's to make DAMN sure I get them- generally in this case each gets hit two or three times.

This tactic can often be confused with sniping, and I think that's what we're dealing with here. I tend to view speedball as a light machinegunners' game- firing out lots of ammunition in shorts bursts to suppress targets or catch them in the open. High rates of fire and massive ammunition expenditure for relatively little real kills, but a high degree of suppression. Woodsball, however, belongs to the riflemen- those who can effectively engage targets at mid range with accurate, limited fire. They can do this on the move, defensively or offensively, or wait in an ambush. It doesn't matter as long as it works.

Now tell me that you can't do THAT in paintball and rack in the kills.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Model98Sniper1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2004 at 12:57pm
yes you are very much right but the only thing is some sharpshooters are also considered snipers it is a common mistake i think the only way you are a sniper(besides the long range auacy[sp]) is if your gun is custom fitted to you and to your specifications
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brihard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2004 at 1:15pm
No. A Sniper can use and generic or stock design that's suited to the task. Though you're right, a lot of snipers DO have tailor made rifles, it's not actually a requirement for the title... It's more the tactics that create the definition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WDR-Tyger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2004 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by mod98commando mod98commando wrote:

Originally posted by WDR-Tyger WDR-Tyger wrote:

...ACTUALLY...  With full arc, at 300 FPS, you CAN arc a paintball 300 feet or so.  Without a flatline.

-Tyger

Not accurately enough to land a one shot kill with any consistency. It's hard enough to get the shot on target and then you have to worry about it bouncing on top of that. Chances are you'll be wasting your time shooting like that.

Sorry on being late to reply, but since the thread has been resurected (and I'm back from the surgery) I'll bring ths up too.

One of the other videos from earlier this year is talking about range and effective range.  http://www.webdogradio.us/video/tipclip/s2/  Show #3.  The first part of the show has a demo of a 250 foot shot, hitting a "bucket" target that's 6 inches across.  I couldn't give it full arc becasue of the ceiling.  The "spread" was only about a 7-10 foot circle, with most of the paint hitting within 5 feet of the intended target.  In fact, looking at the video again the guy who was my witness was STANDING five feet left of target, and he never got hit!

In fact, 40 shots "aimed" produced 2 hits on/in the target.  5% is NOT that bad a percentage for a paintball.  The ultimate test was that we had to do a re-take, because I screwed up the shot to begin with.  And within 20 shots or so, I did the take you see on the video.  So it IS repeatable.  To bring this into "real world" statistics, from more than 200 feet away, assuming no top cover, you can shoot that far without your opponent knowing it.  A paintgun shot at distance has a more muffled sound, and if they're shooting at the same time you could fire off a CANNON and they'd never know it.

All this being said, there's still no such thing as a "paintball sniper".  You can learn your effective range, you can learn your maximum range, you can learn how to arc paint WAY beyond your effective range, you can be a sneaky SOB, but you're still not "Sniping"  Call it semantics if you like, but IMHO there's no such thing as a "paintball sniper".

-Tyger



Edited by WDR-Tyger
Yeah, "that" Tyger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mod98commando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2004 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by WDR-Tyger WDR-Tyger wrote:

...

One of the other videos from earlier this year is talking about range and effective range.  http://www.webdogradio.us/video/tipclip/s2/  Show #3.  The first part of the show has a demo of a 250 foot shot, hitting a "bucket" target that's 6 inches across.  I couldn't give it full arc becasue of the ceiling.  The "spread" was only about a 7-10 foot circle, with most of the paint hitting within 5 feet of the intended target.  In fact, looking at the video again the guy who was my witness was STANDING five feet left of target, and he never got hit!

In fact, 40 shots "aimed" produced 2 hits on/in the target.  5% is NOT that bad a percentage for a paintball.  The ultimate test was that we had to do a re-take, because I screwed up the shot to begin with.  And within 20 shots or so, I did the take you see on the video.  So it IS repeatable.  To bring this into "real world" statistics, from more than 200 feet away, assuming no top cover, you can shoot that far without your opponent knowing it.  A paintgun shot at distance has a more muffled sound, and if they're shooting at the same time you could fire off a CANNON and they'd never know it...

In a real game though, that kind of accuracy is terrible when going against a player with half a brain. If a shot lands anywhere near you with enough velocity to break, you move to cover yourself better right? Against a stationary target, that 5% chance is bad but you can still manage a hit eventually. When you have that kind of accuracy on a moving target, let alone an intelligent moving target, you won't hit them unless they really have no idea that shots are landing all around them. If it takes 20 shots to land a hit, I'd say the chances of them noticing at least one of those misses are high enough that you won't ever be able to hit them without wasting tremendous amounts of paint. While it is possible to land a shot like that, you'd be much better off moving in undetected for a closer shot. For you to land a shot on them from that distance they'd have to have no idea you were there and if that's the case, why not move in closer? They wouldn't see you and you'd increase your chances of a hit that way. Long balling should only be a last resort kind of thing or just used as a diversion.

Anybody who aspires to be a "sniper" should use stealth to get as close as possible so they can take out the target in as few shots as possible before they try to long ball the target. They'd be much more effective that way. I play like that myself though I don't call myself a sniper and I have tried the long range stuff too so I know from experience that you can be more effective by sneaking up close and popping people with just one or two shots. I use some sniper tactics and some from other places as well. Some may call me a sniper because I sneak up on the enemy and usually only take a few shots to eliminate my target which makes me hard to find but I don't consider myself one. In some ways I am a sniper and in others I'm not, I just don't waste time trying to categorize myself. I do what works no matter who normally uses it and that usually works out pretty well for me.



Edited by mod98commando
oreomann33: Everybody invades Poland
Rofl_Mao: And everyone eats turkey
Me: But only if they're hungary
Mack: Yeah but hungary people go russian through their food and end up with greece on everyth
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WDR-Tyger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2004 at 3:10pm

Originally posted by mod98commando mod98commando wrote:

In a real game though, that kind of accuracy is terrible when going against a player with half a brain. If a shot lands anywhere near you with enough velocity to break, you move to cover yourself better right? Against a stationary target, that 5% chance is bad but you can still manage a hit eventually. When you have that kind of accuracy on a moving target, let alone an intelligent moving target, you won't hit them unless they really have no idea that shots are landing all around them. If it takes 20 shots to land a hit, I'd say the chances of them noticing at least one of those misses are high enough that you won't ever be able to hit them without wasting tremendous amounts of paint. While it is possible to land a shot like that, you'd be much better off moving in undetected for a closer shot. For you to land a shot on them from that distance they'd have to have no idea you were there and if that's the case, why not move in closer? They wouldn't see you and you'd increase your chances of a hit that way. Long balling should only be a last resort kind of thing or just used as a diversion.

Well, first of all you give paintball players too much on the intelligence front.    I've met a lot of people that...  well...  are not "Frontal Lobe" people, if oyu get my meaning?

Real world expirence tells me that people don't like to look around if they don't have to.  I also know what my range effectively is with a paintball, so why not use all the tools in my arsenal?  If I don't need to get closer, why risk it?  When you're playing you need to balance risk/reward constantly.  This goes for everything from moving up to the next bunker to long range shooting.

At Shatnerball this year I was having a field day.  Laying at the edge of a tall grass area, I was plinking long range shots at the opponents who were pounding it out with my teammates.  I crawled into a place where I knew I could plink from, and took my time.  And in that situation my percentage was closer to 45% or 60%.  In this case I took a lot of factors into account.  Range, paint, the fact that my targets were distracted, and the fact they made us wear these MAROON FREAKING JERSEYS!!!  In this case, the distance was a factor becasue of the clothing I had to wear.  It was a LOT harder to get closer due to the bright clothing.

You are correct about moving targets, but I hate to say this by most paintball players don't MOVE anymore.  They find a nice place to stay, put out the white picket fence, and homestead.  The advantage goes to the mobile player, or at least the flexable one, who can move and maneuver to meet the needs of the moment.

Long range shooting is a tool in your "bag of tricks".  It shouldn't be your only tool, but it should be there.  The well rounded player can pull tricks out of his bag ad infinitum as needed to meet the situation.  Having more skills at my disposal gives me a lot of options for risk/reward.  To bring it to the main point, if crawling up on the other guys is "high risk", and long range shooting is "low risk" but yields the same eventual "reward", why go the hard route?

-Tyger

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaintballkidEPS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2004 at 3:42pm
ok i agree there isnt sniping in paintball i get it now but i consider myself a marksman or sharpshooter i have a Tippmann A-5 w/ 14" J&J Ceramic barrel ,3 position stock, and intruder foregrip as my sharpshooter up,s and for close range if i have to i have the response trigger so my gun i consider a sharpshooter gun
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CougarBattalion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2004 at 4:40pm
Taken from FM 23-10.1:

The sniper has special abilities, training and equipment. His job is to deliver discriminatory highly accurate rifle fire against enemy targets, which cannot be engaged successfully by the rifleman because of range, size, location, fleeting nature, or visibility. Sniping requires the development of basic infantry skills to a high degree of perfection. A sniper's training incorporates a wide variety of subjects designed to increase his value as a force multiplier and to ensure his survival on the battlefield. The art of sniping requires learning and repetitiously practicing these skills until mastered. A sniper must be highly trained in long-range rifle marksmanship and field craft skills to ensure maximum effective engagements with minimum risk.

Taken from a dictionary:

*SNIPER*

1.) A skilled military shooter detailed to spot and pick off enemy soldiers from a concealed place.
2.) One who shoots at other people from a concealed place.
3.) A marksman who shoots at people from a concealed place.
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