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What is A Good Sniper Setup

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Shadowminion View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shadowminion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2004 at 5:56pm

Wolfie kinda shot himself outta the saddle on that one, but at least he recognized it,,

Which leads us back to the original topic of the post , accuracy is most important in any paintball set up , and the first upgrade most players (speedballers , woodsballers , and "snipers") get .

Getting to know your gun is probably THE most important thing ,in becoming a player to be rekoned with , no matter what tactics you use Speed , Stealth , Ambush . The second , and some would say (rightly so ) just as important ,is to know your tactics , and their execution ,in other words , Practice , Practice , practice .

The reason sniper posts catch so much flak is easy to spot , most sniper posts are made by newer players (post count aside ) Newer players want to play, but may still be trying to define their style , what better way than to go solo then , and watch others on the field ? for those of you that do have jobs , were you expected to assume your full duties on the first day ?, or were you put with a more experienced "hand" for a while , given the basics , and some tips and then kinda coached for a bit before you were turned loose ? That may not be a perfect analogy , but in paintball it would be great if it happened that way . Often it dont , so Newbs got to figure it out for themselves . wanna cut down on snipers ?, OK, take a newb under your wing and show him how to play , at least what you can , show him an Uber trick or two , coach him a bit , Shoot him once or twice (He-he , coaching Fees   ) and then show him how not to get shot so often !!

I took a group of players out this saturday , to a field I had never been to (a sponsored event at the community where I live ), and offered my help where-ever it was wanted . I gave a few tips , provided transportation to and from for some,  fixed a few simple problems with the rental markers (loose tanks and squeege services , and reff'd a few games ) , and even donated some ammo so everybody could have roughly the same amount of paint going into the last few games . 

It just takes a lil bit of time , and patience to encourage someone , and its not that hard with this game , the adrenaline does most of the motivating .

We all want a more educated ,involved player population , if we put in some time coaching new players , we will get that , and have fewer players teaching themselves .

 

Kudos Sarge , good point !!



Edited by Shadowminion
SL68-II , micro honed and polished .688" bore . Tuff Enuf .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfwood's_here Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2004 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by Betterdays Betterdays wrote:


"Drafting" does not apply here...for a variety of reasons. Without getting to deep into the physics of it, drafting works because it counters air resistance.

1. Any object that disrupts air creates a small pocket behind it where the air is still disrupted. By having another object enter into that pocket, you are "drafting", because you do not have to disrupt the air yourself. You follow in the "wake" created by the first object, thus you are not really acting against air resistance, but are able to ignore it. The size of the pocket is determined by the size and speed and shape of the object. That is partly why bullets are pointed, so that they cut through the air instead of just tumbling through it as the shots from a musket did, or a paintball does now.

Originally posted by Betterdays Betterdays wrote:


At the size and speed of paintballs (or real bulltets for that matter) this resistance is so minimal its lost in the friction the barrel generates.

2. You forget that I did not account for certain variables in my calculations. Those variables prove my point. I said already that I do not have the time or equipment to find out those variables right now to be able to prove my point.

3. Friction is a constant, meaning that it will effectively have the same effect on every paintball leaving the same barrel. The forces on each individual paintball will not specifically be constant. This is why the fps of the paintballs can change, even a small amount and with the best equipment. Forces are not a constant, unless you "regulate" all of the forces, so that they would be exactly the same for every paintball. BUT, that does not take into account any distubance caused by the paintball fired off just before it, meaning friction will still  have an effect in slowing the ball, but air resistence may have less of an effect, meaning the ball would travel faster. If something travels through air, it creates a disturbance, which has an effect on other things that travel through air.

Originally posted by wolfwood's_here wolfwood's_here wrote:


Note also that I said it is physically possible, not that I had actually done it.


4. Again, I had stated that it is something that is a phenomenon. I never claimed to have done it myself. The point was that I know WHY something does/does not work. I could not calculate the friction, because I do not know the coefficient of friction for the inside of any barrel, or the effect of air resistance, or the lack of it due to drafting. Nor could I calculate acceleration of the paintball inside the barrel, due to the fact I do not know how much force is applied to the paintball, and due to the fact I cannot find the maximum velocity of the paintball (this would be before the force of friction + the force of air resistance > than the force of the push of the gases behind the ball). It would be worthless to use the exit velocity, because the paintball will have already experienced positive and negative acceleration at that point.

Acceleration = Change in Velocity/time

You could calculate the NET acceleration, from the point when the paintball is at rest in the chamber to the point when it exits the barrel, but that would not help in calculating when the paintball actually slows down, nor at what speed it actually achieved. If we knew the maximum velocity, THEN we could calculate the friction for the inside of the barrel because we know the mass of the paintball, because we could calcualte the forces that acted on the paintball during its travel in the barrel.

Originally posted by Betterdays Betterdays wrote:


Without getting to deep into the physics of it,


Please DO go into the gory details, because otherwise I have no idea if you actually know what you are talking about or not. It seems like you all have a fairly good idea, but are forgetting some basic facts about physics. If I am wrong PROVE IT TO ME DON'T JUST SAY I AM WRONG. Then, if you can actually prove your point, I will accept that I was wrong, but you have yet to bring anything new to the table, while I have even done part of your job for you! Show some effort, do not just waste your time thinking I will give up, because I won't stop if someone has wrongly accused me.

So, prove I am wrong and I will apologize. Otherwise, you are the ones that need to apologize about commenting on something you do not actually completely comprehend.
"May you go with the love and protection of Almighty God"     -Nicholas D. Wolfwood
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfwood's_here Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2004 at 6:48pm
Or, to put it simply:

A. I can prove your point. But you point lacks certain facts about physics. If you wanna know details, ^^^. The point there is that you cannot even prove your own point to be able to comprehend mine.

B. Due to this phenomenon, one day we will have to limit ROF or invent a new way to fire paintballs or they will collide in the barrel. It does not seem to be the case with current technology, BUT my point was the fact it is physically possible. We may not be able to do it now, so it looks like you all won't believe me until it actually happens.

C. I know too much for my own good and need to write shorter posts because nobody actually cares enough to read them, let alone understand what I am talking about.

AGAIN, I bear no ill will, but I want to see you actually PROVE your point, not just assume I will automatically back down because you said I was wrong. I do care enough to read longer posts and understand.

So, please have a nice night.
"May you go with the love and protection of Almighty God"     -Nicholas D. Wolfwood
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote †Sniper† Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2004 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by Sarge14 Sarge14 wrote:

I dont usually do this because of my loyalty to my 98c, but get an A-5 with a flatline.

I play with a guy who is a down right sneaky You know what, which uses an A-5 flatine. yes he has some of those fake leaves on his mask but thats it, he isnt what i would define a sniper, more or less a sneaking person. my point here is you dont need to tramp through the woods looking like a fool trying to blend into the backround and do a one shot one kill deal.

And also dont listen to anyone when they say dont say sniper, its a stupid thing that un-mature people cant seem to get rid of.


I wear my red DYE jersey for woodsball...it's all how sneaky you are, and how aware you are of your environment.

Example:

I was playing a few days ago, and I was sneaking up on this guy. I start to flank around him, about 30 yds distant. I look up, and see a guy no more than 25 feet from me. I start heading towards him. About 15 feet away, I snap a HUGE twig under my shoe, and was like oh crap. But he didn't notice(woot), and I wasted him.

it's all about how you move.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheInvincible Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2004 at 8:02pm
Originally posted by Shadowminion Shadowminion wrote:

Wolfie kinda shot himself outta the saddle on that one, but at least he recognized it,,

Which leads us back to the original topic of the post , accuracy is most important in any paintball set up , and the first upgrade most players (speedballers , woodsballers , and "snipers") get .

Getting to know your gun is probably THE most important thing ,in becoming a player to be rekoned with , no matter what tactics you use Speed , Stealth , Ambush . The second , and some would say (rightly so ) just as important ,is to know your tactics , and their execution ,in other words , Practice , Practice , practice .

The reason sniper posts catch so much flak is easy to spot , most sniper posts are made by newer players (post count aside ) Newer players want to play, but may still be trying to define their style , what better way than to go solo then , and watch others on the field ? for those of you that do have jobs , were you expected to assume your full duties on the first day ?, or were you put with a more experienced "hand" for a while , given the basics , and some tips and then kinda coached for a bit before you were turned loose ? That may not be a perfect analogy , but in paintball it would be great if it happened that way . Often it dont , so Newbs got to figure it out for themselves . wanna cut down on snipers ?, OK, take a newb under your wing and show him how to play , at least what you can , show him an Uber trick or two , coach him a bit , Shoot him once or twice (He-he , coaching Fees   ) and then show him how not to get shot so often !!

I took a group of players out this saturday , to a field I had never been to (a sponsored event at the community where I live ), and offered my help where-ever it was wanted . I gave a few tips , provided transportation to and from for some,  fixed a few simple problems with the rental markers (loose tanks and squeege services , and reff'd a few games ) , and even donated some ammo so everybody could have roughly the same amount of paint going into the last few games . 

It just takes a lil bit of time , and patience to encourage someone , and its not that hard with this game , the adrenaline does most of the motivating .

We all want a more educated ,involved player population , if we put in some time coaching new players , we will get that , and have fewer players teaching themselves .

 

Kudos Sarge , good point !!




A good man, you are.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Betterdays Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2004 at 9:53am

Wolfwood you seem a bit high strung to me. Relax.

I didn't say the drafting field does not occur, I said it doesn't apply.  The drafting field generated by a paintball is so small that it would be virtually impossible for a trailing paintball to get in it. Resistance caused by air operates several orders of magnitude smaller than resistance between two solids. Knowing this...even if you could find a way to get an ROF approaching what you would need, you would start getting barrel collisions caused by the randomness of barrel contact long before drafting became an issue. [ball to barrel matches never being perfect]

And don't forget Velocity Spikes. Intial velcocity of paintballs can vary by m/sec from shot to shot. This variability would have paintballs colliding at even lesser ROFs than barrel friction.

Bottom line, drafting does not apply. Clear enough?

I hope this give you something to ponder. It's all a theoretical debate anyway because it is effectively impossible to get an ROF which would cause any of these conditions in a real world environment. Time required to chamer the second shot is FAR to large to get the ROFs you would need....even if its milliseconds.

finally, since you are new I'll give you some free advice. You might want to work on those people skills....telling fellow forumers they can't comprehend things...that's bad. Or maybe I've just been suckered into a debate with the ultra-rare physics troll.

Have fun... I'm out.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfwood's_here Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2004 at 10:25am


My comment about not comprehending was actually aimed at anyone who could not explain why I was wrong. I get angry when someone just states "you are wrong" and does not explain why, but just wants me to trust them because they "know better".  The thing is that if you know I am wrong but cannot explain why, please do a little research and make sure you have an explanation, otherwise I get all high-strung. That way I can learn why I was wrong and can know what is correct.

You (Betterdays) do not qualify. You explained your point.

I apologize for getting all high-strung, but please understand the source of my stress.

And by the way, if we invented a new way to fire paintballs...
"May you go with the love and protection of Almighty God"     -Nicholas D. Wolfwood
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S\/\/4T-L()G4N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2004 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by wolfwood's_here wolfwood's_here wrote:

Or, to put it simply:

A. I can prove your point. But you point lacks certain facts about physics. If you wanna know details, ^^^. The point there is that you cannot even prove your own point to be able to comprehend mine.

B. Due to this phenomenon, one day we will have to limit ROF or invent
a new way to fire paintballs or they will collide in the barrel. It
does not seem to be the case with current technology, BUT my point was the fact it is physically possible. We may not be able to do it now, so it looks like you all won't believe me until it actually happens.

C. I know too much for my own good and need to write shorter posts
because nobody actually cares enough to read them, let alone understand
what I am talking about.

AGAIN, I bear no ill will, but I want to see you actually PROVE your point, not just assume I will automatically back down because you said I was wrong. I do care enough to read longer posts and understand.

So, please have a nice night.



If understand all of your calculations...

Without any variables, the balls are 10 feet apart. A TYPICAL ball only goes 100 feet before hitting the ground. Marker shooting at 300 feet/second, with no variables, the ball is in the air for 1/30 of 1 second. In that 1/30 of 1 second, a ball is going to gain 10 feet on another ball. At those speeds, no, it isn't going to happen.

Even if you were shooting 60 BPS (not possible with a tippmann at this point in time) the balls would be 5 feet apart. Even at that incredible rate of fire, THERE ARE NEVER 2 BALLS IN THE BARREL AT THE SAME POINT IN TIME. NEVER. So with todays technology, it is NOT possible.

NOTE: All of my calculations are based off of yours, so mine are wrong if yours are wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsoldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2004 at 2:21pm
My question is why do we need to shoot more than one round if we are a "sniper"....kinda defeats the purpose hosin down the woodline.

Interdiction Rifle SetUp

M68A5
Tippmann 68Special Accurized
16in Teflon lined barrel, w/4in PVC muzzle brake
40rd hopper or 10rd tube
8X STANO scope offset off sightline for spotting
ring and bead raised sight system
12oz siphon tank with buttplate
REAL LOUD gets their attention

M68IIA2
Tippmann SL68II accurized
modified valve for liquid
16in Teflon lined barrel w/4in PVC muzzle brake
10rd tube
8X STANO scope offset off sightline
ring and bead raised sight system
12oz siphon bottle with buttplate
LOUDER YET...Really gets their attention

And if you have to ask......maybe you should clean out the ole headgear...and start over.........
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