Tippmann Pneumatics Inc. Homepage
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

"closed bolt"

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
jaked588 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 March 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1319
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaked588 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: "closed bolt"
    Posted: 18 August 2004 at 11:27pm

yea im a little confused about this. as some of u may know ive owned a cocker and cockers open to let a ball fall into the breech rather than letting the ball fall in whenever it can. this is what ive always thought closed bolt was (pull trigger, bolt opens, ball falls in, bolt closes). but when i was pballing a little while ago, i was talking to some ppl (walk-on with a timmy and an angel, and an employee with a trix) and i told the employee that i wanted to get an alias. he said "nah i dont like open bolt design because its a little less accurate." i had heard that trixes were closed bolt before. "and thats why u have a trix?," i said. "yea," he said. later on i was playing with the kids LCD, and the employee said "that angel is closed bolt too," (something i never heard before). "it is?" i said. "yea, do u see a bolt at all?" he said. this confused me because at that point i was debating about the meaning of closed bolt between what i had thought before (pull trigger, bolt opens, ball falls in, bolt closes), and the definition of closed bolt being no bolt exposed.

so all i am asking you guys is, does closed bolt mean what i thought it did, or does it mean that the bolt is completely enclosed (like an angel or a trix)????

thanks in advance,

jake

Back to Top
†Sniper† View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
In soviet Russia, paintball guns own you

Joined: 25 December 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3714
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote †Sniper† Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 August 2004 at 11:29pm
choice 2; angel > you

nah ignore me


Edited by †Sniper†
Back to Top
Slothbutt View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Can’t find the short bus

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2617
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slothbutt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 12:14am
Your right. It has nothing to do with the bolt being enclosed.
Angels are open bolt.
Back to Top
Enos Shenk View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
~-o@

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: A comfy chair
Status: Offline
Points: 14109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enos Shenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 6:12am
An open bolt has the chamber open at rest until you pull the trigger.

A closed bolt has the ball breeched and the chamber closed at rest.

Theres no difference anyway.
Back to Top
Clark Kent View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 July 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8716
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 9:11am

C:  None of those.  Almost all paintball guns open the breach by retracting the bolt, allowing a ball to enter the breach, and the close the breach by pushing the bolt (and the ball) forward, allowing the gun to fire.

The difference between "open bolt" and "closed bolt" is the resting state of the bolt and the firing sequence. 

Open bolt (Tippmann, Spyder, Angel):  Pull trigger, bolt closes, gun fires, bolt opens, ball enters chamber.

Closed bolt (cocker, pump gun):  Pull trigger, gun fires, bolt opens, ball enters chamber, bolt closes.

When you are done pulling the trigger on your cocker the bolt is closed and ready to fire.  On a Tippmann, the bolt is open until you pull the trigger.

Despite claims of cockers owners, there is no meaningful evidence that closed bolt is "better" than open bolt.  Even if there were a difference, that difference would go away at 20bps anyway.

An Angel, however, does have an "enclosed bolt," meaning that (unlike a Timmy/Spyder/cocker) no part of the bolt is on the outside of the gun.  This is handy for playing in the dirt.

 

Back to Top
TRAVELER View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member

Vulcan Logic Academy Graduate

Joined: 30 January 2004
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 1498
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRAVELER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 9:42am
A closed bolt system is more accurate, as the paintball is fired without the motion of the bolt affecting aim. However, as Clark Kent said, at high rates of fire, this benefit vanishes.
For I will wander to and fro,
I'll go where I no one do know,
Back to Top
Enos Shenk View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
~-o@

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: A comfy chair
Status: Offline
Points: 14109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enos Shenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 10:03am
Originally posted by TRAVELER TRAVELER wrote:

A closed bolt system is more accurate, as the paintball is fired without the motion of the bolt affecting aim. However, as Clark Kent said, at high rates of fire, this benefit vanishes.


Prove it. More knowledgable people then you or i have tested it. It has zero effect.
Back to Top
The Ho View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Guested - Just leave already

Joined: 01 July 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 0
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Ho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 11:08am
yep. enos is right again. i am getting sick of that.
I LIKE BIKES!
Back to Top
ImpyKing2 View Drop Down
Member
Member

Guested - Cannot follow any rules

Joined: 14 July 2004
Location: San Marino
Status: Offline
Points: 500
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ImpyKing2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 12:12pm

There have been many test done and the proven fact is that closed bolt guns are no more accurate then open bolt guns at any ROF. People who think thier cocker is more accurate then Angels because its closed bolt is only being foolish and falling into Bud Hores BS hype.

(I'm a nob with no clue about almost anything...)
Back to Top
monster- baller View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar
Strike 1 - Flaming

Joined: 12 April 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 234
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monster- baller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 12:59pm
I'm confused here
i reject reality and substitute my own
Back to Top
Clark Kent View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 July 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8716
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by ImpyKing2 ImpyKing2 wrote:

There have been many test done and the proven fact is that closed bolt guns are no more accurate then open bolt guns at any ROF.

Not true.  There have been some tests, with questionable procedures and even more questionable general application.

 

Back to Top
jaked588 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 March 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1319
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaked588 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 2:26pm
ok thanks ppl. i think i saw a video or some documentation of a test done with closed versus open and it was the slightest bit more accurate but who cares, like stated before all extra benifit of closed bolt is gone at high ROF
Back to Top
Greg Smith View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Get back in your hole!!!

Joined: 11 June 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2750
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by ImpyKing2 ImpyKing2 wrote:


There have been many test done and the proven fact is that closed bolt guns are no more accurate then open bolt guns at any ROF.



Not true.  There have been some tests, with questionable procedures and even more questionable general application.


 



If you are talking about bench clamped markers in controled environments then you might find that there is a tiny variation between open and closed bolt markers. I say might because other factors effect accuracy much greater than the firing configuration (e.g., ball quality, consistency, barrel quality).

In a game though there is no noticeable difference.
Didn't I say, "No Guns for the Monkey?"
Back to Top
Clark Kent View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 July 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8716
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 3:36pm
I agree, Greg - I have certainly never seen any meaningful difference between open and closed bolt accuracy.  I was simply commenting on the somewhat strong statement that it is a "proven fact" that there is no difference.
Back to Top
Bobeo View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 November 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 237
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobeo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 4:50pm

Yeah for some reason lots of people think that An open bolt means the bolt is not enclosed.  I was talking to my friend about cockers and how they were closed bolt and he was like, "yeah same thing with Angels."  I wa thinking no.  I was right.

 

WooHoo.

Proto Matrix/Crossfire 92/45 Fund- $730/1150
Back to Top
Enos Shenk View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
~-o@

Joined: 10 June 2002
Location: A comfy chair
Status: Offline
Points: 14109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enos Shenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 4:55pm
Thats because people are dense.
Back to Top
Tippyguy View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 July 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tippyguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 6:16pm

 

Well this just confirms what  I figued

Good for me

Back to Top
ImpyKing2 View Drop Down
Member
Member

Guested - Cannot follow any rules

Joined: 14 July 2004
Location: San Marino
Status: Offline
Points: 500
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ImpyKing2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 7:03pm

Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

I agree, Greg - I have certainly never seen any meaningful difference between open and closed bolt accuracy.  I was simply commenting on the somewhat strong statement that it is a "proven fact" that there is no difference.

It isn't proven eh...maybe you should read some of the test done then you'll see that it is proven that there is no difference in accuracy or perfornace in closed bolt guns.

(I'm a nob with no clue about almost anything...)
Back to Top
rednekk98 View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar
Dead man...

Joined: 02 July 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8925
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by TRAVELER TRAVELER wrote:

A closed bolt system is more accurate, as the paintball is fired without the motion of the bolt affecting aim. However, as Clark Kent said, at high rates of fire, this benefit vanishes.
You are right, no matter what enos says. The fact is that if you have a heavy mass moving prior to the shot, it's going to throw off your initial aim. But this is of course moot when you're firing a string of shots. It effect first shot accuracy only, but depending on the gun, not by much.
Back to Top
Clark Kent View Drop Down
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 July 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8716
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2004 at 9:43pm
Originally posted by ImpyKing2 ImpyKing2 wrote:

Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

I agree, Greg - I have certainly never seen any meaningful difference between open and closed bolt accuracy.  I was simply commenting on the somewhat strong statement that it is a "proven fact" that there is no difference.

It isn't proven eh...maybe you should read some of the test done then you'll see that it is proven that there is no difference in accuracy or perfornace in closed bolt guns.

Why don't you point me to the studies in question, then...  (I presume you mean the pbtimes study?)

And then go look up "proven fact" in the dictionary.

 

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 10.03

This page was generated in 0.203 seconds.