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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SandMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 2:57pm
Let's see... Perhaps because my father was a Nazarene minister and I grew up going to church 4x per week without fail, not to mention going to exclusively Christian schools until I was 15.

If that's not enough, I married the daughter of a Baptist minister who's now traveling as an evangelist.

----

I competed in hours upon hours of Bible quizzing and quizzing practice as a child. I had a dedicated Bible class one hour a day from 4th to 9th grade.

----

That's where I'm getting this stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ejp414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by Big Jim Big Jim wrote:

Sandman, who are you to tell me it don't work that way? You're just another man. And as for taking a step back and looking at things myself? I ave. And it makes perfect sense to me. And Sandman. Is'nt that what faith is? Blind?


So you sort of lost quavered in your faith for a bit when questioning as opposed to blindly following?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:00pm
That all does'nt matter, what does matter is what you are before God.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SandMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by Big Jim Big Jim wrote:

Sandman, who are you to tell me it don't work that way? You're just another man. And as for taking a step back and looking at things myself? I have. And it makes perfect sense to me. And Sandman. Is'nt that what faith is? Blind?


You're right. I'm another man. But I think I've proven by my posts here, in contrast to yours, that I have a much firmer grasp on reason, logic, and critical thinking than you do.

The fact is, you can't get into a discussion like this and hide behind your precious Bible, all the while asking people not to question your beliefs. The world doesn't work that way.

And, no, faith is not blind. If it were, then there would be nothing separating me from Osama Bin Laden. He has faith too, faith he operates on without question. Hitler had faith, too. As do all the other zealots, terrorists, and whack jobs who want to force their blindness on everyone else.

True, real faith is educated and informed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frozen Balls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by Big Jim Big Jim wrote:

Sandman, who are you to tell me it don't work that way?And who are you exactly to tell us it does? You're just another man.umm yeah And as for taking a step back and looking at things myself? I ave.Without a bible or a preacher? Shenanigans I say. And it makes perfect sense to me.How can it make perfect sense if it is "blind" faith, as you state in your next sentence? And Sandman. Is'nt that what faith is? Blind? Like a bat. Only they have that cool echo location thing.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:02pm
Historical Fact:
Jesus was not the only Messiah at the time. There were lots of Messiahs. Another Messiah at the time named Apelonious of Tyana. He also in the first century was claimed by his followers that he healed the sick, he raised the dead, he was a ble to walk through walls and buildings, that he was infact persecuted for his beliefs and religious beliefs, he was brought to trial by the local Roman courts, he was crucified, and after he died he, we are told ascended into heaven and he came back where his followers saw him.

Note: this is not the Jesus story, Apelonious of Tyana.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sniped out Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:03pm

Ya, faith is pretty much blind.

And as for God and Buddha, Zues, Satan, and Hades, etc, everyone has their own beliefs, and maybe there are multiple Gods(that is what i believe),  i am mixed with a Buddha belivin' mom, and Jesus and God believin' dad, and i have merged those two together to create my own little belief. So i belive in Goddha. lol, just kidding.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frozen Balls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Historical Fact:
Jesus was not the only Messiah at the time. There were lots of Messiahs. Another Messiah at the time named Apelonious of Tyana. He also in the first century was claimed by his followers that he healed the sick, he raised the dead, he was a ble to walk through walls and buildings, that he was infact persecuted for his beliefs and religious beliefs, he was brought to trial by the local Roman courts, he was crucified, and after he died he, we are told ascended into heaven and he came back where his followers saw him.

Note: this is not the Jesus story, Apelonious of Tyana.


word. Am I correct in assuming he wasn't interested in being Christian? And could you give me a link or soemthing, cause that sounds interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:05pm

Sandman, I am pretty sure some Lutheran denominations believe in works.  Don't quote me, though.  Most denominations I come across that are strictly of the "saved/born-again" approach are not only Protestant, but Evangelical.

I think.  Maybe.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ejp414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:05pm
Okay, Big Jim. You refuse to say that you either have lacked faith before or that your idea of faith is slightly wrong. You also refuse to tell me your denomination.

Big Jim, you started this thread by saying "Do you believe in God? Answer yes or no, and go on to explain why.", that's a copy and paste, complete verbatim. So, Jim, it's your turn to answer your own poll. So far all you have done is accused Dune and myself of being destined to eternal damnation and argued (badly) with Sandman's logic.

What is your explanation, Big Jim? If you cannot yourself explain why you have a faith and that if you attempt to you are acting immorally, how can you expect others to answer this poll? Furthermore, by doing nothing more than rattling off pre-decided answers to questions, you are not performing your duty as a Christian, that is, to spread the faith as the early prophets and current evangelists do.

Please respond.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enos Shenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:05pm
I rarely get into my real beliefs in these things but...

I believe in a god. I dont believe in jesus or buddah or allah or any worldly religions because i dont believe that human beings can ever understand god, or know what god wants or doesnt want.

I dont believe that any organized religion has the right idea. Everyone is too tied up arguing and killing over whos right. I believe that organized religions are just trumped up crap to make some power hungry priest feel important. Do we really need all the ceremony and nonsense catholics do? Does your omipotent all-caring god care whether you get splashed with holy water and preached to by some guy with a giant hat? Its all overboard, its all nonsense.

I do not believe that in 2000 years, any original truth in the bible could possibly have survived all the rewrites and translations and meddling from humans. We screw things up too much and put a spin on EVERYTHING and you think that we kept some supposedly holy book unchanged for 2000 years?

Heres what i say. Believe in what you want, as long as you BELIEVE it. Dont just take some puffed up holier than thou idiots word for it. Dont take some books word for it. What do YOU FEEL, that is what matters. Not some nonsense ceremony, not some lavish church, not some "worldly voice of god". What matters is YOU and GOD, whatever god you choose to worship. Spirituality is a personal thing, and it should be YOUR choice and YOUR beliefs, not some trendy crap thats been shoved down your throat by pastors and missionaries and annoying mormons. In my opinion, all the religions are really talking to the same big man, and if hes all hes cracked up to be, im sure hell understand if you didnt feel the need to go to sunday school to get closer to understanding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SandMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:07pm
That's not a Christian's duty, by the way. That's an organized religion thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boomstick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:10pm

I don't think organized relgion is right. Cause then all of these religions claim they are the "Right" religion. As long as you worship god and follow the bible, thats basicly all religion is and you can do that on your own. I don't think its right that we have all of these branches of christianity. But yes i still go to church every sunday and I am Catholic.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frozen Balls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by boomstick boomstick wrote:

I don't think organized relgion is right. Cause then all of these religions claim they are the "Right" religion. As long as you worship god and follow the bible, thats basicly all religion is and you can do that on your own. I don't think its right that we have all of these branches of christianity. But yes i still go to church every sunday and I am Catholic.



You lose. Please play again.

You can't say organized religion is wrong, and then tell someone to follow the bible. It is the backing for Christianity, dont ya know...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ejp414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by SandMan SandMan wrote:

That's not a Christian's duty, by the way. That's an organized religion thing.


Christianity is not an organized religion? (Or a big group of them, meh)

In any case, I'll try the whole mathematical logic thing, since that seems to be popular today.

1. It is a Christian's duty to treat others as they would like to be treated. (Source: Beatitudes, AKA the "Golden Rule")
2. A Christian would not want to go to Hell. (Given)
3. Big Jim's beliefs as a Christian include that anyone who does not believe in God is destined to eternal damnation. (Source: His Church's doctrines)

From this you can deduce that Big Jim's duty as a Christian is to spread the word of God, so that those who do not currently believe in God have the chance not to burn for their beliefs. QED


Edited by Ejp414
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hades Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by Frozen Balls Frozen Balls wrote:


Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Historical Fact:
Jesus was not the only Messiah at the time. There were lots of
Messiahs. Another Messiah at the time named Apelonious of Tyana.

word. Am I correct in assuming he wasn't interested in being Christian?
And could you give me a link or soemthing, cause that sounds
interesting.


I have been searching this entire morning for a source on this, I know exactly where I obtained the information offline. I will continue to search for something in writing online, but I have been unsuccessfully in my hour or so of searching. I will get back to you as soon as I get an online source for it.

I qouted Michael Shermer in an episode of Penn and Teller's BullPoop Showtime show.

Edited by Hades

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:17pm
I am a CHRISTIAN, I've already explained what that is in this thread. I go to Calvary Bible Church. We base our faith directly from the Bible.(The King James Version.) I don't go to any fancy church, or do any special ceremonies, I go there to worship God.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enos Shenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:21pm
Then why do you go? I can worship god from my chair.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:22pm
To gather togther with other believers, it's otherwise known as Sunday worship.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ejp414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by Big Jim Big Jim wrote:

I am a CHRISTIAN, I've already explained what that is in this thread. I go to Calvary Bible Church. We base our faith directly from the Bible.(The King James Version.) I don't go to any fancy church, or do any special ceremonies, I go there to worship God.


Catholics are Christian. Baptists are Christian. There is a big difference, one example being a literal interpretation of the Bible as compared to people understand that Bible holds significance, but it not meant to be used as a history book. There are a lot of other examples, but I think the point has been proven. So you're a non-denominational Christian?

If you honestly had questioned your own faith as you said before, I'd expect you to realize that there is more to Christianity than one set of beliefs. Hell, I'd actually have expected you to even research completely different religions, even if only to strengthen your beliefs in your Christian ideas.

And nice dodging my last post, by the way.

EDIT: Not last post, the one where I challenged the adherence of your actions to your Christian teachings and stuff...


Edited by Ejp414
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