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Abortion?

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Poll Question: Should a mother have the option to abort a healthy fetus?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
57 [43.18%]
3 [2.27%]
72 [54.55%]
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tmino1687 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tmino1687 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 11:43am
Originally posted by EYES EYES wrote:

I don't think a mother should by any means be permited to abort any fetus. Unless there is 100% proof that both she, and the child will die in labor/birth.

The only thing I don't understand is that most people who are anti-abortion don't even want to take propper care of the living people. If it was up to me, I would gaurantee good healthcare, a good public education, shelter and food to any child that needs it. If a mother  aborts a child, chances are she doesn't want it/won't be able to financially support it because of poverty or whatever other problems she has. If a mother can't take care of her baby, the government should. But most politicians who are pro-life don't want to do that. So they are basically throwing that life away anyway. And that's why the US has such a high infant mortality rate. It's not because the baby is born unhealthy/un-cureable, it's that the mother can't afford to pay for it's life, and the government refuses to. Hopefully that would convince some mothers not to abort and save some lives. Instead of saving them and then throwing them away. That's just what I'd do though.

But those are just my moral beliefs. According to the law it's legal though, so it doesn't really matter. A country is run by the law, not personal beliefs.

i totally agree but there are so many foster kids and stuff that i think like a girl thats 16 has sex and then is goin to have a kid she should not be able to kill it because she didnt use protection, so i think u have to be over 21 to have an abortioncause by then u are old enough to decide.  Plus how bad would u feel if u killed someone cause u didnt want them because ur forgot or didnt want to have safe sex.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdmiralSenn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 11:58am
Here's my pre-typed response:

When a woman becomes pregnant, she is now already in "mother mode".
That means she has as much responsibility for her child as any other
mother. How is it her choice to "do what she wants with her body" when
her choice will destroy another person's body?

I understand the motives behind a rape-induced pregnancy, but I still think abortion is wrong. Barring a natural miscarriage, that collection of cells, once the egg is fertilized, is going to become a baby. As I said, I don't think that it's a woman's choice to do what she wants with "her" body when it destroys someone else's.

Unfortunately, I don't have any other ideas for rape victims, other than for them to arm themselves somehow and just be careful. That still won't prevent all rape though, so I don't know. I do think the government should pay for unwanted or rape-conceived children, and I also know that no actress should have to get an abortion. Ever. When was the last time an actress got raped? Barring that, it was HER choice to sleep with whoever, and so it is HER responsibility to bear the child, and the father's responsibility to help her raise it.   

Edited by AdmiralSenn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fallout_soldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Originally posted by Hades Hades wrote:

Boy, one thing in life I have noticed, is that opinions on this topic greatly change once people start having sex.

I came to the conclusion the other day that a woman who does all in her power, ie... birth control, regular doctor visits should indeed be allowed to have an abortion. Obviously she does not want to have a child at that time.

Also in instances of rape, incest, and danger to the life of the mother, abortions should be allowed.

As for women that are underdeveloped in age and econmically unable to raise or care for a child should also be allowed to have abortions.

I personally feel that women that have abortions instead of using birth control are abusing the system, but it is still the parents choice.

Personally, I think the bigger arguement is whether or not the father has the right to force the mother to have the child when he is for having the child when the woman does not.

I could not have said it any better.

Me neither


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tae Kwon Do Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 12:16pm

I used to be pro-choice but I am more and more leaning twords the pro-life side everyday.

I think that, if it does not pose a health threat, there are enough things to do with the child after its born than just killing it. Adoption, Giving it to friends/family, Ect.

If the birth of the child will cause severe health problems to the mother, I think it should be her choice, as with babys that have health problems and will most likley come out still or not live long after birth.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote choopie911 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by Neutral Neutral wrote:

Thanks


If you say "depends on circumstances" please define the circumstances. Circumstances can mean anything from "I wanted a boy" to "My acting career will be ruined!"



Sorry, should have been more clear. If the child is going to die shortly after birth for sure, then ok, abortion is an option. If it is hazardous, or it was an accidental pregnancy, and will not be able to support the child, or maybe not be physically able to give birth, then ok. Also, if the person was a victim of sexual assault, and the child was conceived against the mothers will, then agani, abortion could be an option.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ekeboo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 12:45pm
I am pro life  if there is danger to the mother then she can have an abortion in my mind


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slothbutt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 12:53pm
I am Pro-Life.

Actually my philosophy class studied this alittle bit. I think Jim Stones argument for the wrongfullness of abortion is a good one.

-Premise 1. Healthy infants have a powerful claim to our protection and we wrong them seriously if we kill them.
-Premise 2. There are no morally relevant differences between infants and fetuses.
-Conclusion- Therefor, healthy fetuses have a powerful claim to our protection and we wrong them seriously if we kill them.

A morally relevant reason is one that would justify different treatment.
He goes on to show there are no morally relevant differences between infants and fetuses.

Birth-There is no significant difference 5min before and 5min after birth.
Viability- They need more care from there mother so that gives us a right to kill them?
Sentient-They can't "feel" the first few months. So we have the right to kill people in that are in a temperary comma who arn't sentient?
Human form- They look like a bund of cells or a tad-pole. Isn't this the same a racism or sexism. It's only looks.

So he shows you have to agree with the second premise and if you want to deny the conclusion you have to some how disprove the first premise.

If you are intrested in this topic I suggest you read The Morality of Abortion: An exchange, by Jim Stone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enos Shenk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 12:58pm
While i dont partiularly like abortion, im a libertarian. Completely pro-choice.

As Jay said "Me and Silent Bob are pro choice, a womans body is her own ****** business"

Anti-abortion people are disgusting anyway. I went downtown to hit the main library one day, and there was some guy standing across the street with some giant sign with a dead baby on it, like all smashed up and torn apart. I started yelling at him, i told him i would wager almost anything he was one of those cult of christ idiots that think video games are corrupting the youth, and there he is standing on a public streetcorner with a picture of a dead baby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ejp414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by Enos Shenk Enos Shenk wrote:


Anti-abortion people are disgusting anyway. I went downtown to hit the main library one day, and there was some guy standing across the street with some giant sign with a dead baby on it, like all smashed up and torn apart. I started yelling at him, i told him i would wager almost anything he was one of those cult of christ idiots that think video games are corrupting the youth, and there he is standing on a public streetcorner with a picture of a dead baby.


Well, jeeze, Enos, you're not stereotyping at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SandMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 1:07pm
The terms "pro-choice" and "pro-life" are meaningless slogans adopted by politically bent zealots riding a wave of their own assumptions. No one seems to care about the issue at hand:

IF the fetus is an independent life, then there can be no choice. (Hey lefties, don't allow your rectal cavities to lock up at this point. Here me out.) Willfully taking the life of another human being is murder.

HOWEVER

IF the fetus is effectively a growth in the woman's body, she should have the right to have it medically removed up to the point that it becomes an independent life.

WHAT'S THE ANSWER?

The answer cannot be found until we use our brains and adequately define the question. Stop riding political bandwagons and personal agendas and honestly seek a truthful, equitable resolution.

The question, in short form, is: When does the fetus become and independent life of the type that murder laws become effective?

WHY WE'LL NEVER FIND THE ANSWER...

Because people don't want the truth. They want what they want. Most people, in fact, are afraid of what the truth might be.

Sadly, that has ever been true and shows no promise of change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SandMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 1:08pm
Hehe... Enos has fallen off of his pedastal of neutrality...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Solipsism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 1:10pm
Pro choice, its none of my concern so Im not going to take part in restricting a freedom of the female gender that doesn't affect me in any way at all.

Besides, abortion clinics are great places to pick up women.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SandMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by Solipsism Solipsism wrote:

Pro choice, its none of my concern so Im not going to take part in restricting a freedom of the female gender that doesn't affect me in any way at all.


That argument could just as easily be used to support wife battering... And, in fact, WAS at one time. (Look up the origin of the "rule of thumb".)

But before you get angry, read my post above ^^^.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Solipsism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 1:17pm
Abortion is a little bit different than beating the crap out of a woman.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SandMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 1:20pm
Right, for two reasons:

- We haven't bothered to make the legal distinction defining the point at which a fetus has rights of its own.

- We're talking about killing instead of just injuring.

Both boil down to the rights of the other. And, if you'll read my post above, my official position is that we need to know more about what rights we should apply to whom and when.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Solipsism Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by SandMan SandMan wrote:

We haven't bothered to make the legal distinction defining the point at which a fetus has rights of its own.


Which is why one is fine with me while the other is not.


Edited by Solipsism
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SandMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 1:25pm
So, your stance is... Because we don't know for certain whether the fetus should have individual rights... Screw 'em.

Now we're going back to the parallel I drew between this issue and spousal abuse. Using your same logic, people justified beating their wives and owning human beings as slaves.

They did horrible things to people with rights because they assumed those people didn't truly have rights of their own.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ejp414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 1:27pm
Originally posted by Solipsism Solipsism wrote:

Abortion is a little bit different than beating the crap out of a woman.

You're right, if something goes wrong while beating up your wife, someone dies. If something goes right in an abortion, someone dies.

Before I get labeled, I'm an atheist liberal.

And Hades, you are completely correct about the positions changing after people start having sex. It is much easier for someone to make the correct moral decision while in a third-person situation. When you get into a situation where the right thing is inconvenient, then it's a bit tougher to stand up for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SandMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:


Originally posted by Solipsism Solipsism wrote:

Abortion is a little bit different than beating the crap out of a woman.

You're right, if something goes wrong while beating up your wife,
someone dies. If something goes right in an abortion, someone dies.


Assuming the fetus qualifies as "someone"... Geez... Assumptions (tick) me off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotreDamePaintB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2004 at 1:34pm
Being a catholic and for pro life I am against abotions.
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