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DNC!!!! kerry’s speech

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VisionIMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 12:22am

o yea...of course someone is paying them off. way to make assumptions! First off im not the media. Second the media is the media they never did and they never will work for the country only their own success and themselves. I dont know why they dont report this stuff why dont YOU ask them yourself.

The truth of the matter is WMD's have been, are being, and will be found whether you want to believe it or not.

BTW the caps were to stress the fact to your thick skull, I dont know maybe its the fact that they letter are big and you can understand them better. I know how little tiny letters can make it hard for you to decipher.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VisionIMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 12:23am

Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:

So if I said the idiot is wrong out of the two, who would I be referring to in this case?

oh funny man. Grow up loser.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fallout_soldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 12:23am

I give up.  visionIMP you win the prize



Edited by Fallout_soldier

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VisionIMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 12:24am
damn straight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ejp414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 12:25am
Originally posted by VisionIMP VisionIMP wrote:

its the fact that they letter are big and you can understand them better.



Need I say more? Learn to spell, type, debate, and act civil before telling me to grow up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote boomstick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 12:26am
Originally posted by Clark Kent Clark Kent wrote:

Originally posted by boomstick boomstick wrote:

ignorant.

I'm sorry.  Nobody with your sig gets to call anybody else ignorant - EVER.  Your sig is like tattooing "I don't know what I'm talking about but I like to toss labels around" on your forehead.

 

 

 

my sig was an inside joke among friends. i don't really think kerry is a nazi or hitler. its just a joke.

YONK~!~
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fallout_soldier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 12:27am

one more thing it would be in the medias best intrest to report on a frekin huge story like that you dult.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 5ptcontingency Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 12:28am
Originally posted by Fallout_soldier Fallout_soldier wrote:

I give up.  visionIMP you win the prize



Originally posted by Fallout_soldier Fallout_soldier wrote:

one more thing it would be in the medias best intrest to report on a frekin huge story like that you dult.



hey now, you already conceded victory.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 9:09am
Originally posted by Ejp414 Ejp414 wrote:

Originally posted by VisionIMP VisionIMP wrote:

its the fact that they letter are big and you can understand them better.



Need I say more? Learn to spell, type, debate, and act civil before telling me to grow up.

You'll just have to let it go man. There are too many people that lash out and call us commies and talk about how liberals are the "devil." If some of these people, not all, actually took the time to prepare an argument and research things then they might have intelligent comments. One person said that after 30 seconds of Kerry's speach he walked out because Kerry said we went to Iraq with false information. The fact of the matter is the CIA had just come out and admitted to going to war on false premises and blowing up information. How can you get mad at the truth? People are going to flame and spout their opinions without doing research or clearly looking at the situation. Just do your part and vote. Then we'll see who wins.

By the way, Kerry's speach was very good, although the best speach given was by Al Sharpton suprisingly. That man could have touched a dead person. He was brilliant, although I don't normally agree with him.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 9:11am
Like Jon Stewart said, the CIA claiming that the information they had was wrong and that yes they sort of lied to the public and government about WMD's and the Iraq-9/11 link should quite possibly be the biggest scandle of our time. This scandle should be bigger than Iran-Contra, bigger than the Clinton affair, yet Teresa Heinz Kerry telling someone to "shove it" seems to be a bigger deal. I'd like to understand how the media is so liberal if they are barely touching this issue, yet making a bigger deal out of Heinz Kerry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WUNgUN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 9:26am
Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

CIA claiming that the information they had was wrong {false statement to follow}and that yes they sort of lied to the public and government about WMD's and the Iraq-9/11 link should quite possibly be the biggest scandle of our time.

This is interesting, so who burns for it? Clinton, Bush, Putin, Blair, Yeltsin, or you?

Edited by WUNgUN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SandMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 9:40am
It was a slanted dialogue to support a carefully engineered political agenda. No more, no less.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 9:42am
Okay, then lets just ignore the CIA report, seems like everyone else has been doing that for over a week.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SandMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 9:47am
Originally posted by Fallout_soldier Fallout_soldier wrote:

one more thing it would be in the medias best intrest to report on a frekin huge story like that you dult.



Warning to everyone here... This kind of personal slam is not welcome here.

Fallout, consider this a formal, public warning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WUNgUN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 9:48am
Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Okay, then lets just ignore the CIA report, seems like everyone else has been doing that for over a week.

My point is that all politicians take sides and manipulate "intelligence" accordingly. I did some research and in 1998 Clinton was trying to rally support for an invasion of Iraq. Republicans were not buying it. Same year, Yetsin feared that Iraq was on the verge of starting World War III. Switch presidents and parties, and everything changes, literally. Similar to Vietnam Era politics.

Edited by WUNgUN
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 10:00am

Originally posted by WUNgUN WUNgUN wrote:

Originally posted by Dune Dune wrote:

Okay, then lets just ignore the CIA report, seems like everyone else has been doing that for over a week.

My point is that all politicians take sides and manipulate "intelligence" accordingly. I did some research and in 1998 Clinton was trying to rally support for an invasion of Iraq. Republicans were not buying it. Same year, Yetsin feared that Iraq was on the verge of starting World War III. Switch presidents and parties, and everything changes, literally. Similar to Vietnam Era politics.

Ah okay, I understand what you're saying now. I do agree with you on most of that. The Republicans in the later 1990's were not ready to go back into Iraq, I remember that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WUNgUN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 10:09am
*Yeltsin...I missed an "l" in my last post!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rednekk98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 11:26am
This thread, with very few exceptions, has just been nasty and childish. You're spewing soundbytes you've heard at each other like monkeys hurling feces.

I'm not going to say that the inteligence they had wasn't spun to show their veiwpoint, or that they hadn't been intentionally misled by Chalibi and the INC.

But it's time for a little history refresher here.
Fact: Saddam had and used chemical weapons

Fact: Saddam had a weapons program

Fact: Saddam agreed to declare his weapons and facilities, and have their destruction verified by inspectors. Much like arms reduction was done with the soviets. Missles, bomber aircraft ect. were destroyed publicly and verifiably.

Fact: Saddam DID NOT COMPLY with inspectors. They were not granted acess to all of the facilities, they actually had to hunt for these weapons that he had declared he had. It wasn't a simple affair of the inspectors watching him dismantle his program like it was supposed to be. He quite obviously had no intent of complying with inspectors, causing them to leave the country a few times during the Clinton administration, ending with their final withdrawl and a massive air campaign that destroyed many sites he wouldn't allow acess to.

Fact: When inspectors we allowed back in before we invaded they discovered Saddam had the Al-Samoud II rockets, which, due to their range he wasn't allowed to have. These were supposedly all destroyed by inspectors before the invasion, but they still got lobbed at Kuwait when we went in(many getting shot down, or left alone because they'd only land in the desert). I only keep from citing SCUDs(which were a big no-no according to the post gulf war agreement) because the media tends to call any big rocket fired by Iraq as a SCUD, much like people call facial tissue Kleenex even if it isn't Kleenex brand.

Fact: Saddam refused to account for many liters of toxic agents that he declared previously and would not verify their destruction or show where they were.

Add to that shells designed to carry gas(which did not contain gas) one sarin shell, and circumstancial evidence of duel-use facilities to produce chemicals.(I still have no clue what those trucks were for if they weren't a mobile bio-weapons lab) And a few jets modified to dump bio-weapons or gas on a video shown to the UN by Colin Powell, plus some planes burried in the sand. With those circumstances, plus the post 9-11 climate, I don't see how we could have afforded to not do something about Saddam and take his word for it that he had no weapons or program, even though he wouldn't allow inspectors to verify this. When you're talking about the possibility of a chemical or biological attack, the stakes are pretty darn huge.

George Bush should have allowed the inspectors to have more time in Iraq. Just enough time to get fed up with Saddam and leave. Saddam played this game with Clinton, the great statesman that he was(no sarcasm here actually) got the inspectors to leave, and would allow them back in at the very last second, at one time the tomahawks were spooling up in their launch tubes before he caved. Even Clinton got sick of this and bombed the hell out of Iraq. (the republicans really didn't like that) Saddam didn't quite think Bush had the stones to piss off the UN and attack anyway and figured he could play the game with him.

What bothers me most about how the administration justified the war was mainly focused on the WMD danger. I don't like the scare tactics and the way he really stretched things out to make it look like a bigger deal than it was. I think the REAL reasons for the war were good enough and blowing some of them out of porportion to convince the public, IMO is insulting to the intelligence of the general public. However, as a lot of guys in this thread have proved, mindless repitition of a soundbyte works to perseud people. Be it "George Bush is the terrorist" or "nuculer(sic) weapons". You guys remind me of the sheep in Orwell's "Animal Farm" sometimes.

So for the REAL REASON for this war. Al-Qeada connection? Eh, not really. Some of our "allies" have more Al-Qeada than Iraq did before the war. Oil? Well, that's the only reason we got involved with the region in the first place, but not quite the reason for the war. WMD? Scary, and usually better safe than sorry, but then why not other countries that had it Security? Probably the closest you'll come to the real reason.

The sanctions imposed on Iraq after the 1991 Gulf War were harsh. Iraqis were dieing because of them by the thousands while the Ba'athists were living in luxury. In situations like this, tenions are boiling. Saddam wouldn't live for ever, and was totally off his rocker by the end, writing romance novels while the country went to hell and his sons raped and tourtured the population. What was going to happen in Iraq after Saddam kicked the bucket? Would one of his sons who were actually worse than him, take over? What if the whole country errupted into a huge civil war, or Iran tried to annex it?

We could very possibly end up having to move in there fast to stabilize or fight with little warning, or the results could be horrific. What if it became a Fundamentalist Islamic state? What if it became a failed state run by warlords and crawling with terrorists blaming the US for their current situation because of sanctions or inaction? What if any of these things happened, and there had been WMD? It doesn't take much to really screw things up. The things that sarin attack in a Japanese subway did were horrible. Imagine that in grand central station.

9-11 changed our policy to one of pre-emption. With the possibility of a WMD attack, you can't afford not to have that policy, and I'm afraid Bush's use of it many have discredited it enirely.


Now on to Kerry. Kerry voted in favor of the war, now I've heard him saying it was a mistake, and also that he'd do it again if placed in the same situation, just have a better coalition. Mostly I can't figure out what the hell he's talkin about, because it changes every time he's asked. Kerry's in it for the votes, and will say what he needs to to get your vote. Even if it disagrees with what he told someone else.

As for building a better coalition, I don't see that happening sucessfully. Nobody's going to want to get into this thing now. The absolute best he could do would be to help keep other countries from complaining so much, but they wouldn't support it any more than they are. Even the 1991 coalition was mostly US. Face it, even with John Kerry as president, we aren't going to get French, or German, or Russian, or UN troops on the ground there. And at this point of the game, we don't want to be bringing them in. It'd annoy the Iraqis who're trying to do this themselves with minimal help.

I'd really like to know what John Kerry is going to do to improve the situation. I don't care what he would have done differently, I want to know what he's going to do NOW and how he plans on doing that.

The reality of it is we're at war with Extremist Muslims all over the world. And if they weren't in Iraq before, they are now. It'd be great if we could just pack up and leave the country and the Iraqis would handle everything. But if we leave, they'll follow us. They'll strike in Africa, the Philipennes, South East Asia, right here in the US. This enemy has no borders and hates us passionatly. They seek to turn Iraq into that failed state or Islamic state to harbor their opression and warped ideology. They are using good old fasioned tradition terrorist methods of hostage taking to break up our coalition, which doesn't matter if it's as big of a joke as the democrats say. The terrorists seem to think it's helping them to do this.

I honestly don't think John Kerry will be able to do better than Bush in keeping the coalition together, let alone build it up. The situation in the world now is scary as hell. I'd be great if getting rid of George Bush would make them stop hating us, but they'll hate us anyway. I'm afraid if Kerry wins it will send the wrong message to terrorists, and even more afraid he will insitute policy changes that will disrupt any progress we HAVE made, or can make on the current path.

Please, if you can tell me what John Kerry is going to do differently and how he's going to accomplish it, and what the end results will be, tell me. I'm not happy at all with the current situation, but I do see how it could get much, much worse in a hurry. I still do consider myself undecided, but for me foreign policy is a big issue, seeing as how I'm of appropriate age to end up getting shipped off and shot at if things really blow up. I'm strongly looking into joining the service as a way to pay for college, plus my own personal beleifs and reasoning. I'd rather not have a president who's likely to do a duct-tape and bungy cord type fix on the worl situation that will hold for his presidency then break open even worse years down the road.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EYES Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 11:55am

Getting back on topic here....

I liked Kerry's speech. He said what he needed to say and he did a good job saying it. A great speech presented in a great way. It seemed to me like he really meant what he was saying.

I agree with Dune though. Sharpton without a doubt had the best speech at the convention. That was just great. I was also very impressed with Obama's speech, even more so than I was with Kerry's.

I really didn't appreciate the conservative reporters though... They really took away from most of the enjoyment of the program. I was watching CNN by the way.

Hahahahahaha, did anyone else laugh at the director of events at the end of Kerry's speech? "More baloons. Where are the baloons? I don't see baloons. Come on, baloons, baloons, baloons, baloons. Where the hell are the baloons? Come on confetti." Hahahahahaha, that was great.

 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WUNgUN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 July 2004 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by EYES EYES wrote:

It seemed to me like he really meant what he was saying.


Sharpton without a doubt had the best speech at the convention.


Kerry believes everything he says, especially about his service in Vietnam; the problem is that even the people who served alongside of him do not. How much do you know about the Reverend? I am going to assume that you may be too young to remember his racism and anti-Semitism.
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